< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 45 OF 45 ·
|Aug-14-10|| ||eightsquare: Chess960 is still in its infancy. Many people don't even know about it. Unlike supply chess , this way of playing really improves ones chess. I recommend it to everyone .|
|Sep-07-10|| ||Gene M: I believe that Fischer's castling rule for FRC-chess960 is better than the MK2S (Move-King-2-Squares) proposal.|
Fischer's rule, which merely retains the traditional destination squares for the castling king and rook, is better at promoting asymmetrical positions between White and Black, in the form of opposite wing castling.
In FRC when the kings start in column-c, few players would castle their king to column-e. Instead we would see relatively dull sameness of both White and Black castling to column-a, highly symmetrical and drawish.
I am unsure what the MK2S proposal would mean for castling toward column-a when the two kings start on column-b: would castling toward column-h, with king jumping to column-d, be the only castling option? If yes, then yuk. That would promote even more symmetry.
|Sep-07-10|| ||Gene M: The chess world might get more out of Fischer Random Chess if it dropped the "Random" aspect.|
If FIDE or ChessTigers.de announced that RNBBKNQR was the only chess960 start setup to use for at least the next decade, we could watch the growth from infancy of a whole new set of openings.
(RNBBKNQR is legally reachable after 1. e3 e6)
Opening "theory" took hundreds of years to accrue for the traditional setup.
But with today's legions of sophisticated grandmasters, all equipped with chess engines that crush the World Chess Champion, we could observe the growth of virgin opening theory in relative real time. It would be facinating.
Until we have substantial opening theory accrued for a second start setup, we cannot reliably judge our assumptions that are currently based on only the one traditional body of opening theory.
For instance, Reuben Fine said it is unwise to move develop your queen too early. But I am confident that such advice is bad in some chess960 start setups. Fine's principles remain untested until a second chess960 setup is study for years.
Even grandmasters cannot play strong opening moves when presented with a random setup they never studied. Truly random FRC is still fun to play, but so could be a second stable setup before deep move trees are available to memorize.
For spectators, a stable second setup replayed and honed by grandmasters over the coming years would be far more interesting than continued random setups.
From watching the annual chess960 tournaments in Mainz, it seems that --- "We have learned that we have already learned all we are ever going to learn from random chess960".
|Sep-07-10|| ||Gene M: More thoughts about the random aspect of FRC:
|Sep-07-10|| ||kellmano: I wonder how much the benefit of first move varies with the different set-ups. Perhaps in some positions it is a fairly big advantage to be white and in other positions it'll be a minimal advantage. |
If it is variable, this would introduce an element of luck into any FRC match, unless one position was used for all games.
|Sep-16-10|| ||Gene M: Undoubtedly the size of White's unfair advantage is bigger in some FRC-chess960 setups than it is in the traditional setup, and smaller in some others.|
What we have not yet learned about chess is: What are the factors that make White's advantage relatively larger or smaller. And what does the ultimate answer teach about chess? Likely something we do not yet understand as well as we could.
We will never learn the answer until at least a second start position is studied in depth -- classic need of 2+ cases for any measure of variability.
|Feb-14-11|| ||Eduardo Bermudez: Shall we play Chess960?|
|Aug-16-11|| ||karban: I played couple of games with my brother, we are amateurs. The feeling is quite strange: You feel that you play another game in comparison to normal chess. Then, when you exchange couple of pawns and pieces, gradually you feel like you recognise something and when you reach an endgame it is like back in home:)|
So it is like a total eclipse or recognising a person whose you haven't seen many years: at first move you don't see anything and then little by little you are on more familiar ground (unless you are checkmated around move 10). Well it will be difficult to implement chess 960 to wider public. Chess are difficult game and amateurs, I suspect, prefer at least know where the pieces should start, people don't like something new in any apects of life when they have something other which works better or worse. But it is worth trying.
Technically, I don't like the idea of castling here. I know that is like heresy but it should be abandoned in my opinion - too much messy with it for amateurs and in the end play'd be even more agressive.
|Oct-17-11|| ||VladimirOo: Anybody knows where to find games of Random Chess ? Some database, or just games alone ?|
|Oct-17-11|| ||Tomlinsky: It hasn't, to my knowledge, been updated in quite some time but there are some interesting games to pore over here for starters ...|
|Nov-25-11|| ||Penguincw: I never knew you can kibitz here.|
|May-11-12|| ||christianbelgien: I am searching for a self-contained Fisher Random Chess position generator to use in the chess club where there is no internet connection. Does anyone have an idea?|
|May-11-12|| ||SimonWebbsTiger: @<christianbelgian>|
might be what you are looking for!
|May-11-12|| ||phycodurus: @<christianbelgian>|
I wrote a position generator for iPhone:
* Generates random starting positions (SP)
* Shows SP for given number
* Shows number for given SP
* Intuitive SP editor
* Handy thumb wheel for SP browsing
|Jun-05-12|| ||GeneM: Discard the "Random" from Fischer Random Chess!
The traditional start setup has been so over-played and over-studied that grandmasters can now only rarely find a stronger novel move in the early or mid-Opening phase. Novelties now usually occur in the middle game.
But if there were still lots of strong novel moves available to find during at-home preparation, those novelties could be sprung over the board to perhaps create advantages large enough to nurture to a decisive outcome.
But the over-played traditional setup has no more early to mid-Opening phase novel moves or systems left to offer.
Where oh where might we find new start setups that still offer numerous strong opening novel moves and even novel systems??
The chess world should choose one sensible start setup from the other 959 of chess960-FRC, and then STICK WITH IT FOR A COUPLE DECADES.
[But which second setup?
(a) No bishops can start on any corner square.
(b) White's two knight must start on squares of the same shade.
I bet the draw rate would be lower for several years under a consistently reused second setup (compared to the suffocatingly enormous draw rate among elite grandmasters with ongoing exclusive use of the over-played traditional setup).
If we mistakenly try to keep the "Random" in FRC, then even grandmasters will be overwhelmed by the mountain of a thousand start setups. No opening systems will develop. Given a new setup, a well-prepared and smart opening system is far more likely to occur on the board. Smart opening play will be more interesting than weak play design mostly on a desire to avoid blunders or on a search for cheap tactics.
Discard the "Random" from Fischer Random Chess!
|Jun-05-12|| ||HeMateMe: Perhaps the next step up in human intelligence will be men and women playing moves as deep as those of the computer programs that everone seems to despise.|
I love to look at the games played by top software, running on a big engine. Very creative work. Maybe the GMs can observe these games more closely, and learn a thing or two. Or three.
|Jun-05-12|| ||Golden Executive: |
<Oct-17-11 VladimirOo: Anybody knows where to find games of Random Chess ? Some database, or just games alone ?>
Here in <CG>? sure!, just click
Leko vs Adams, 2001
|Jun-05-12|| ||SamAtoms1980: <GeneM: The chess world should choose one sensible start setup from the other 959 of chess960-FRC, and then STICK WITH IT FOR A COUPLE DECADES.|
But which second setup?>
There was a nice simple one that I read about in some book, maybe it was <The Even More Complete Chess Addict>. Just switch the knights and bishops; start the knights on c1, f1, c8, f8 and the bishops on b1, g1, b8, g8. The book I read had a special name for this position, but I can't remember what it was. The elite grandmasters would surely end up spending some years recreating opening theory for this new array.
|Jul-19-12|| ||jnpope: Google turned up this term:
<Vaureal Dawn: knights & bishops switch their initial position on board.>
Here is a "Vaureal Dawn" game between Helms and Elwell:
|Nov-10-12|| ||pjl1015: Play 960 on SchemingMind.com|
|Jan-25-13|| ||OhioChessFan: <karban: Technically, I don't like the idea of castling here. I know that is like heresy but it should be abandoned in my opinion - too much messy with it for amateurs and in the end play'd be even more agressive.>|
<GeneM: The chess world should choose one sensible start setup from the other 959 of chess960-FRC, and then STICK WITH IT FOR A COUPLE DECADES.>
I agree, but it will never happen.
|Jan-25-13|| ||Caissanist: Almost no updates here in the last two years. Was this just a passing fad?|
|Feb-02-13|| ||IMFSTJP: 1st Chess960 Singapore National Championship: http://tinyurl.com/ax52u5n|
|May-23-13|| ||marljivi: Chess960 is 960 times better than traditional chess.|
|Oct-19-13|| ||parisattack: <Caissanist: Almost no updates here in the last two years. Was this just a passing fad?>|
Seems, though it still has some hardcore advocates. I think its heyday was around 2000-2005.
As a solution to chess becoming over-analyzed, it would be at best a short-term one. You can't outrun Moore's Law and/or the constant progress in heuristic algorithms - at least with a measly x1000 factor. Then there is quantum computing which is making some real progress of late.
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