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Apr-14-20  chesshistoryinterest: <Tabanus>

<<chesshistoryinterest> Hope I did not mix you up with someone else :)> I admit to being puzzled by this one(!?) I have never posted here under any other name, at any rate.

I guess there is some latitude with presenting tables. I think I prefer having 'Pts' there because if there's a score of 0, 1, 10 or 11, it can almost look like it's part of the table. Having 'Pts' at the top of the column makes it clearer it isn't to me. I observe that Gaige uses 'Pts', as do Di Felice and McGowan.

Nice introduction to your "German Championship 1938" Game Collection:)

Apr-14-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Telemus: <Game Collection: Master tournament Vienna Chess Society 1895> Why do you do this??

I have submitted the first games and wait for them to be included into the database. My text is far more advanced, and I took it out yesterday evening for a greater revision in a normal editor.

My crosstables were done and that was reported here several days ago.

You are invited to comment on my version later, of course, but I am not interested in any kind of <competetion>.

Apr-14-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: <Pawn and Two>, danke schon!

<Who Was Birdie Reeve?>

https://www.chesshistory.com/winter...

Whenever I come back to this, it continues to strike me as strange that not a single game of hers has come to light. So much so, it's occurred that in regards to the claims of her chess prowess, at least, we may have been the victim of a publicity hoax organised by her father, who was her manager/promoter. I challenge anyone to find a published game of hers or a detailed description of one of these alleged exhibitions.

Apr-14-20  chesshistoryinterest: <Telemus> I am not trying to compete, as I indicated there. I was just trying to be helpful, to save you some work, as the last I saw, your crosstables were not in a completed form. When you took your material out, I did not know how long it would be until it reappeared. I was impressed that you had mentioned the four games that Holzwarth had played, and wanted to ensure that this important information was preserved.

I wish you all the best with this very worthwhile project, and if it makes the Tournament Index, all credit will be yours.

Apr-14-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: Ok... I put 1938 up for Game Collection Voting. With Pts and TeleSchach numbering, so that everybody gets happy :)

It can still be edited, both under and after voting.

Apr-14-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Telemus: <chesshistoryinterest> Okay, I understand.

<as the last I saw, your crosstables were not in a completed form.> You have stated earlier today that your criterion for inclusion is that games can be rated. Well, mine is historical correctness. Therefore the meaning of "completeness" can differ.

Holzwarth's games will stay in the round list and I intend to include his only surviving game into the tournament, of course.

<I was impressed that you had mentioned the four games that Holzwarth had played> I was rather surprised (but not too much) that Magister Ehn claimed something completely different.

Apr-14-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Telemus: <AnnieK: Master tournament Vienna Chess Society> Thank you for including the three submitted games!

I hope there was no problem and I can submit the remaining games at once. Not because I want to save a few minutes, as my friend <TheFocus> assumed, but as a test for larger events.

Apr-14-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Annie K.: <Telemus> no problems at all. :) Go ahead and submit the rest at once.
Apr-14-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Annie K.: <Telemus> one of the games in the new batch was rejected for already being in the database. Following it up, I found this non-TI event, with two more games in it: Vienna (1895). Should I move the games from here over to the rest of the games at Master tournament Vienna Chess Society (1895)?
Apr-15-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Telemus: Sorry, <Annie K>, obviously I did not check this.

Unfortunately, the three cases seem to be different.

There is one game now twice in the database: G Marco vs J Schwarz, 1895, and G Marco vs J Schwarz, 1895. Please delete the second one. (And there is a typo in the first one: 'Viann' instead of 'Vienna'.)

The game Meitner vs Schlechter, 1895 belongs to another event.

And the game that was rejected was this one: J Schwarz vs Max Weiss, 1895. I included it already in my game collection, but the event should be changed and the [Source "Algemeen Handelsblad, 14 June 1895 (morning issue)"] should be added.

Sorry for the inconveniences!

Apr-15-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: 1939 also in the Game Collection Voting booth.

With the usual risk of being scolded of course, not having read neither DSZ nor the tournament books. I better stick to the 21st century.

Apr-15-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Annie K.: <Telemus> it's not really a problem - there's an upside to it: when a game is rejected for already being here, it often gives us a clue where else to look for other games possibly from the same event that we already have.

Now about which game to delete when there are duplicates: the consideration is not which one has the correct details, but which one has kibitzing, is included in game collections, or is in the Guess-the-Move game database. In this case, there's no kibitzing on either game, no other collections (other than yours, so at least you will be aware if I delete it), but the older game IS in the Guess-the-Move. I don't want to lose those statistics, so I am deleting the new game, and updating the details of the older one instead.

Thanks for your work. :)

Apr-15-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Annie K.: Oh, and another thing I wanted to comment on. The software for the tournament pages is set up to check how many participants there are in an event, and add the word "Match" to the end of the page title if there are two, or the word "Tournament" if there are more than two. So it's highly preferable to avoid including those words in your chosen Event tag. Otherwise we end up with tournament titles like <Master tournament Vienna Chess Society Tournament> (Master tournament Vienna Chess Society (1895) - the crosstable view - this is what you get only when you press the little trophy icon for now, but it's also how the event will look once it's added to the TI), and then the Redundancy Department of Redundancy is calling us about it. ;p

So I would suggest a title like "Vienna Chess Society Masters" instead. :)

Apr-15-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Telemus: <Annie K> Thank you again for the explamnations. I was lucky that there was no kibitzing for that game, but I was not aware of the Guess-the-move-statistics.

<tournament/match> Well, if I had written such a heuristic, I would have checked whether 'tournament' or 'match' already appears in the name.

<"Vienna Chess Society Masters"> That's okay for me.

Apr-15-20  TheFocus: The Caissars awards are about to happen, and I must say that nominating a single historian here will be very difficult. There so many here that have added to chess history!

May the best one(s) win.

Great work by all of you!!

Apr-15-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  jnpope: <Annie> I'm guessing that Sterling - Vazquez Match 1 (1894) and Sterling - Vazquez Match 2 (1900) are in some sort of pending state, which is why I cannot create a match table and provide additional data like match conditions and prize information?
Apr-15-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  jnpope: <Annie>, I'm also fine with Vienna Chess Society Winter Tournament (1895/96) being renamed so it doesn't show up as "Vienna Chess Society Winter Tournament 1895/96 Tournament".

Although I like <Telemus>'s idea, but I'm guessing you couldn't get Sargon interested in adding a check like that?

Apr-16-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: In case CG is interested in game type statistics, I put a list in my forum header of 46 games that should be --> Rapid.

Should I send a slip for each game?

Apr-16-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

<jnpope> You can add a crosstable and additional data like match conditions and prize information to both of those events.

Scroll down to the bottom of the page and you will see a box where you can enter text, including a crosstable.

Apr-16-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  jnpope: <Annie> Thanks! So it won't allow you to create a bio section until after there is a Standings section?
Apr-17-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: <Annie> Thanks. World Cup (2011) should now have fairly correct dates + game types. It even has an intro.

There are more 128-player KO's.. I'll try to slow down :)

Apr-17-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Annie K.: <jnpope> not exactly - the key is not activating the standings list (which Daniel called "crosstable", apparently because he liked to confuse people) ;) - but the kibitzing section. After all, knockouts and team events don't have standings lists, because these would be meaningless, but they can still have everything else. This is also known as adding the tournament to the TI (the Tournament Index). These are cg's "official", kibitzable tournaments.

Every game is assigned to a "tid" (which means "tournament ID number", not to be confused with the TI), but only the relatively full and orderly tournaments are entered into the TI (either by 5 editor votes - look at the top of the page, you can try out your editor powers right now if you want, just click the "vote on collections" link - or by me), which makes them searchable, kibitzable, gives them an intro section, and turns every reference to the event (the event name in the titles of all games belonging to it, homepage game and player search results, etc.) into links to the tournament page.

<Tab> Great. I also merged the 2011 WC Candidates Final into the main event now, kibitzing and all. :)

Apr-17-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  jnpope: I just submitted two games, John Brand vs Jacques Francois Mouret. A notable game for three reasons, the first is Mouret was an operator of the Turk and the second is that John Brand was probably the first chess player put on trial for being insane. The third reason is that it is a rare game played even (Mouret almost always gave pawn and move).

The second game is John Brand vs W Fraser (which hopefully CG will correct to William Fraser). Again, John Brand is interesting for a number of reasons and I'm working on a little bio. Fraser is interesting due to his match against McDonnell, but also because he was a witness at John Brand's trial.

Apr-18-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  jnpope: Well, I was screwed over by the search algorithm again... search for Mouret you get search "Mouret"

Search for Brand you get:
search "Brand"

Search for Mouret v Brand you get:
search "Mouret v Brand"

So the game is already here... well at least I can update "J. Brand" to "John Brand"... and provide some bio background...

As near as I can search the Brand v Fraser games doesn't exist unless the search algo is dicking with me again...

Apr-18-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  jnpope: At the very least I think when there is a single name provided, such as "Brand" or "Mouret" that the search results should be a intermediate page with a list of player names if there is more than one player with that name (perhaps presented with date ranges, earliest to latest game dates) that we could then select on to drill down into a particular player. The current search algorithm's selection of the player to display is rather weak.

(I know, blah blah blah Sargon something something). Just venting my frustrations I guess...

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