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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 883 OF 1067 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Dec-10-06 | | whiteshark: <<melianis>: <themadhair>> DON'T HURRY giving up 36. h4 line !
I'am analysing 36... Re8 the immediately <37. h5!> now,
leading to a very promising (forced?!) Rook-ending
after 37... Qg7 38. hxg6 Qxg6 39. QxQ hxg6 40. Rf6
diagramm would now helpful
Look how pretty the black pawns are posted on the 6th rank!
Rook is wellplaced on f6 and is going to create a g-passed pawn. 40... Rd8 41. Rxg6+ Kf7
2nd diagramm, please
Line upto now: <33.Bf6 Bxf6 34.Rxf6 Rxf6 35.Qxf6 Qd7 36.h4 Re8 37. h5! Qg7 38. hxg6 Qxg6 39. QxQ hxg6 40. Rf6 Rd8 41. Rxg6+ Kf7> Q1: Is this a promising R-endgame (yes)
Q2: Is <37... Qe6> 38. hg6 hg6 39. QxQ TxQ 40. Rc1 Re2 41. Rc6 Rxb2 42.Rxa6 Rd2 43. Rxd6 Rxd4 44. Rxg6+ Kf7 an alternative ? (my prelimary line only) Here you often see the horizion effect in comp.evaluation... |
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Dec-10-06
 | | Domdaniel: <TheBB> Thanks for that - I've left a message on your forum. It's not urgent right now, but the offer is appreciated. |
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| Dec-10-06 | | edda zeitz: How to win a R-endgame
(6) Polgar,Ju (2710) - Topalov,V (2813) [B42]
Blindfold Rapid Bilbao ESP (6), 09.12.2006
1.e4 c5 2.Sf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Sxd4 a6 5.Ld3 Se7 6.0-0 Sec6 7.c3 Le7 8.Le3 0-0 9.Sd2 d6 10.f4 Sd7 11.Tf3 g6 12.Tg3 Sxd4 13.cxd4 e5 14.Sf3 exd4 15.Sxd4 Sc5 16.Sf5 d5 17.Ld4 Lxf5 18.exf5 Sxd3 19.Txd3 Lf6 20.fxg6 hxg6 21.Db3 Te8 22.Tad1 b5 23.Dc3 Lxd4+ 24.Dxd4 Te6 25.Dxd5 De8 26.Dxa8 Dxa8 27.Td8+ Dxd8 28.Txd8+ Kg7 29.Kf2 Te4 30.Kf3 Tc4 31.Td2 a5 32.Td5 Ta4 33.a3 b4 34.Td3 bxa3 35.bxa3 Tc4 36.g4 Kh6 37.h4 f5 38.Kg3 fxg4 39.Kxg4 a4 40.Td6 Kg7 41.Ta6 Td4 42.Ta7+ Kf6 43.Ta5 Kg7 44.Kg5 Kf7 45.Ta7+ Kf8 46.Kxg6 Txf4 47.Ta8+ Ke7 48.h5 Tg4+ 49.Kf5 Tc4 50.h6 Tc5+ 51.Ke4 1-0 |
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| Dec-10-06 | | Nightranger: Here's your diagram < whiteshark >
Starting from our current position: 
click for larger viewAfter the line: < 33.Bf6 Bxf6 34.Rxf6 Rxf6 35.Qxf6 Qd7 36.h4 Re8 37. h5! Qg7 38. hxg6 Qxg6 39. QxQ hxg6 40. Rf6 > We have:
click for larger viewAfter: < 40... Rd8 41. Rxg6+ Kf7 > 
click for larger view |
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| Dec-10-06 | | whiteshark: Thank you very much, <Nightranger> ! |
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| Dec-10-06 | | pawndookie: Line upto now: <33.Bf6 Bxf6 34.Rxf6 Rxf6 35.Qxf6 Qd7 36.h4 Re8 37. h5! Qg7 38. hxg6 Qxg6 39. QxQ hxg6 40. Rf6 Rd8 41. Rxg6+ Kf7>> Why not 38...hxg6? |
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| Dec-10-06 | | pawndookie: Perhaps it leads to the same position but to really go down this road, you will need to play out the ending resulting from your final position after
After: < 40... Rd8 41. Rxg6+ Kf7 > to see if black can hold the draw.
Right now I am more confident that the line
33.Bf6 Bxf6 34.Rxf6 Rxf6 35.Qxf6 Qd7 36.Re1! can be won as I have spent some time on it and I have yet to see anyone come up with a way black can hold. |
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| Dec-10-06 | | pawndookie: Sorry, here is the entire line...Can anyone break this? 33.Bf6 Bxf6 34.Rxf6 Rxf6 35.Qxf6 Qd7 36.Re1 Rf8 37.Re7 Qxh3+ 38.Kxh3 Rxf6 39.b4 Kf8 40.Rb7 Ke8 41.b5 Kd8 42.bxa6 Kc8 43.Rxh7 Kb8 44.Rg7 Rf4 45.Rxg6 Rxd4 46.Rxd6 Rd3+ 47.Kg4 Rd1 48.Kf4 Rf1+ 49.Ke5 Rg1 50.Rg6 Rd1 51.g4 d4 52.g5 d3 53.Ke4 Ka7 54.Ke3 d2 55.Ke2 Ra1 56.Kxd2 Rxa5 And here according to tablebases is mate in 24 If instead 47...d4 then 48.Kf4 Rd1 49.g4 d3 50.Ke3 Re1+ 51.Kd2 Re5 52.Rxd3 Rxa5 and Mate in 30> |
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| Dec-10-06 | | pawndookie: This entire sequence of moves is entirely forced I think ;-) 39.b4 Kf8 40.Rb7 Ke8 41.b5 Kd8 42.bxa6 Kc8 43.Rxh7 Kb8 44.Rg7 The only question is Can black improve on 44...? The only move moves I see is Rf4 and g5 which both lose. |
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| Dec-10-06 | | TTLump: <whiteshark: After your suggested moves 37… Re7 38.Qxd6 Rf7 I would simple play <39. Rxf7+ Qxf7 40. b4 !!> and black is completely paralysed / Zugzwang (1:0).> How true! I looked at that position too quickly at the time, it seemed drawish, but upon closer analysis, it looks to be a decisive win for White! 38... Re6, looks somewhat better than Rf7?, although long term prospects appear bleak! Thanks for your insight!
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| Dec-10-06 | | Stellar King: <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>here come the gun!! not the shot ..not the hand but the alekhine one!!!> |
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| Dec-10-06 | | themadhair: <DON'T HURRY giving up 36. h4 line !> I haven't given up on it. |
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Dec-10-06
 | | Chessgames Challenge:
33.Bf6
FINAL VOTE RESULTS:
| 33.Bf6 |
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240 | votes |
(75.9%) |
| 33.R1f2 |
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30 | votes |
(9.5%) |
| 33.Rf7 |
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13 | votes |
(4.1%) |
| 33.Qg4 |
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11 | votes |
(3.5%) |
| 33.0-1 |
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4 | votes |
(1.3%) |
| 33.b4 |
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3 | votes |
(0.9%) |
| 33.h4 |
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3 | votes |
(0.9%) |
| 33.Rb3 |
|
1 | vote |
(0.3%) |
| 33.Bf8 |
|
1 | vote |
(0.3%) |
| 33.re1 |
|
1 | vote |
(0.3%) |
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total # of votes: 316
draw requests: 10 (3.2%)
click for larger view
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| Dec-10-06 | | Nightranger: And so it begins... |
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| Dec-10-06 | | Karpova: GMAN will hae nightmares...
Positive: The number of draw offers decreased again and stays on an overall low level.
No votes for Qh6...
Negative: Four votes for 0-1. What an inventive joke! |
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| Dec-10-06 | | whiteshark: <<pawndookie>: <Can anyone break this? 33.Bf6 Bxf6 34.Rxf6 Rxf6 35.Qxf6 Qd7 36.Re1 Rf8 37.Re7 Qxh3+ > Y'day <Wolf001>, <Tabanus> and me were analysing <37... Rxf6> as only playable move. But it looks all very well for white, too. Scroll back a few pages and have a look. |
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| Dec-10-06 | | Peter Reeve: Forgive me if this suggestion has already been analysed to death (I don't follow the game every day) but isn't 33…Rc7 Black's obvious next move? Then 34.BxB KxB (not 34...RxB??) looks OK for Black. |
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| Dec-10-06 | | Thorsson: <Karpova: Four votes for 0-1. What an inventive joke!> There was also re1 (sic) and Rb3. Plus the impossible move Bf8 (I thought CG expurgated these). Who cares though? These piteous specimens can rightly, and should henceforth, be ignored. |
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| Dec-10-06 | | Thorsson: <Peter Reeve: Forgive me if this suggestion has already been analysed to death (I don't follow the game every day) but isn't 33…Rc7 Black's obvious next move? Then 34.BxB KxB (not 34...RxB??) looks OK for Black.> 35.Qd8 1-0. |
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| Dec-10-06 | | isemeria: <whiteshark>, <melianis>, <themadhair>, <Nightranger> I posted the same 36. h4 line two days ago (see p. 875, with diagrams ;-). But I still don't know which is better, 36. h4 or 36. Re1. |
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Dec-10-06
| | Domdaniel: FORUM update
Forums for 33...Bxf6 and 33...Rf8 will be announced shortly. The only other move that seems even slightly plausible here is 33...Qb7. 33...Rxf6 simply transposes.
And 33...Bf8 is busted.
Therefore forum analysis will focus on the two mainlines, with 33...Qb7 a distant third. Anyone - premium member or otherwise - who'd like to try hosting a forum, please let me know. |
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Dec-10-06
| | Domdaniel: FORUM NEWS
Forums after 33.Bf6 are:
Current forums:
User: themadhair is hosting 33…Rf8 User: jepflast is hosting 33…Bxf6 Other moves for Black, eg 33…Qb7 or 33...Bf8, can be given a forum later if needed. But the lines after 33…Rf8 and 33…Bxf6 – both leading to Q+R endings – are the most critical. Whenever possible, please also post endgame positions to Nightranger’s Endgame Forum (see below). User: Artar1 is working on a compendium – a complete overview of our position plus the main lines and endings arising from it. He is still open to ideas. For deep computer analysis (Rybka, with a quad opteron processor) see User: RandomVisitor. This forum also features useful FAQs about computers and engine analysis. Note that the unexpected time-out this week has allowed RV to probe the position even more deeply than usual. ENDGAME ANALYSIS
(1) An Endgame Forum, where endings can be analysed and debated, is hosted by User: Nightranger (2) User: Brent Baccala is working on a new computer approach to possible endings, with his own tablebase program. The Strategy Workshop is hosted by User: Open Defence The Devil's Advocate Forum – viewing the game from Black's point of view - is hosted by User: YouRang. It features the latest message to us from Arno Nickel and links to his articles. Note: Nightranger's page-by-page Kibitzing Guide remains in his main forum profile. His collection of useful FAQs has moved to User: FAQ NR Volunteers – premium members or otherwise – are always welcome. Just click on the Eye and say hello. Thanks.
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Dec-10-06
 | | Tabanus: This may be non-news, but with no pieces on the board, except Kings and pawns, white wins by b4! if the black king is on f7. With the king on e7, Kg3! draws (b4 draws or loses). |
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| Dec-10-06 | | Artar1: Compendium Update:
The Compendium is now complete, but in all likelihood it will not be easy to read. The Compendium is on my forum. Just click the horse avatar and you will be there. For me to reformat the Compendium so that it would be more readable would take days. If you like, I can send you a PGN copy of the game to use in your analysis. You can request a copy by posting on my forum. I would like to thank everyone who contributed to the Compendium. The work contained therein came from no fewer than 18 different analysts working on behalf of the World Team. After going over all the moves in the Compendium, A. Nickel is going to have a difficult time finding a draw. It may be there, but it won't be easy to find. He will have to play perfect chess in order to escape defeat. Regards |
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| Dec-10-06 | | Artar1: According to the Compendium, there are five reasonable responses for Black's 33rd move: 1. Rf8
2. Rxf6
3. Bf8
4. Qb7
5. Bxf6
Rxf6 and Bxf6 are the best continuations for Black. |
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Kibitzing
