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[flip board] GAME OVER: 1/2-1/2 [flip board]

MOVES:
1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Nf3 d6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 Nf6 6.Bg5 e6 7.Qd2 a6 8.O-O-O Bd7 9.f3 Be7 10.Be3 h5 11.Kb1 Qc7 12.Nxc6 Bxc6 13.Bd3 b5 14.Ne2 Rc8 15.Nd4 Nd7 16.h3 Bb7 17.Bg5 Bxg5 18.Qxg5 Kf8 19.c3 h4 20.Rhe1 Rh6 21.Bc2 Qb6 22.Re2 Nf6 23.Bb3 Qc5 24.Qe3 Re8 25.Red2 Rh5 26.Bc2 g6 27.Qe1 Qc7 28.Ne2 d5 29.exd5 Nxd5 30.Be4 Kg7 31.Qf2 Qe7 32.Nd4 Nf6 33.Bxb7 Qxb7 34.Nc2 Qc7 35.Ne3 Qg3 36.Qg1 Rg5 37.a3 a5 38.Qf1 Re5 39.Rd3 Qf4 40.Re1 Nd5 41.Nxd5 exd5 42.Rxe5 1/2-1/2
GAME OVER thank you for playingit is now 18:40:50
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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 178 OF 931 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Sep-14-08  Ruy Lopez: Is there something wrong with Bd7? I'm leaning toward it for some reason, and though I know that 13 votes is hardly significant, I wanted to be sure.
Sep-14-08  classF: Temporary Forums:

*** <Analysis of 6…<e6> 7. <Qd2>> User: ajile

*** <Analysis of 6…<e6> 7. <Bb5>> User: dalbertz

*** <Analysis of 6…<e6> 7. <Qd3>> User: achieve

*** <Analysis of 6…<Bd7>> User: tweet77

*** <Analysis of 6…<Qb6>> User: mckmck

*** <Analysis of 6…<a6>> User: Red October

*** <Analysis of others> User: benjinathan

Sep-14-08  Dionyseus: Here's a partial Opening report from Chessbase 10. I have voted 6...e6

1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Nf3 d6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 Nf6 6.Bg5

B60, 6.Bg5
20372 Games in 'Big Database 2008'

1. History

Earliest game: Mueller,N - Gregory,B 1-0
Latest grandmaster game: Savchenko,B - Ivanchuk,V 0-1 Latest game: Henrichs,T - Decoster,F 1-0

2. Players

a) Strong grandmasters who used this line as White:
Viswanathan Anand Result=25.5/35 1984-2007 Elo-Ø: 2655 Games: 35 Vassily Ivanchuk Result=16.5/29 1985-2007 Elo-Ø: 2703 Games: 29 Alexei Shirov Result=16.5/26 1992-2007 Elo-Ø: 2707 Games: 26 Anatoly Karpov Result=15/23 1971-1994 Elo-Ø: 2695 Games: 23 Garry Kasparov Result=9.5/13 1975-2002 Elo-Ø: 2716 Games: 13 Alexander Motylev Result=7.5/12 2002-2007 Elo-Ø: 2648 Games: 12 Ruslan Ponomariov Result=6.5/8 1998-2006 Elo-Ø: 2669 Games: 8 Gata Kamsky Result=5/11 1993-2007 Elo-Ø: 2681 Games: 11 Robert James Fischer Result=3.5/6 1957-1972 Elo-Ø: 2785 Games: 6 Teimour Radjabov Result=2.5/3 2005-2006 Elo-Ø: 2685 Games: 3

b) Other notable players:
Oleg Korneev Result=48.5/63 1992-2007 Elo-Ø: 2585 Games: 63 Semen I Dvoirys Result=44.5/62 1980-2006 Elo-Ø: 2532 Games: 62 Vlastimil Jansa Result=43/77 1961-2007 Elo-Ø: 2480 Games: 77 Thomas Luther Result=40.5/64 1990-2007 Elo-Ø: 2516 Games: 64 John TH Van der Wiel Result=38.5/55 1978-2007 Elo-Ø: 2516 Games: 55 Janis Klovans Result=38/67 1968-2007 Elo-Ø: 2456 Games: 67 Mihail Tal Result=35/46 1953-1991 Elo-Ø: 2611 Games: 47 Viesturs Meijers Result=33.5/47 1989-2007 Elo-Ø: 2450 Games: 47

3. Statistics
White scores averagely (54%).
White performs Elo 2396 against an opposition of Elo 2368 (+28). Black performs Elo 2331 against an opposition of Elo 2359 (-28). White wins: 7591 (=37%), Draws: 6597 (=32%), Black wins: 6166 (=30%) The drawing quote is lower than average. (6% quick draws, < 20 Moves)

White wins are of average length (40).
Black wins are of average length (41).
Draws are shorter than average (36).

4. Moves and Plans

a) 6...e6

16230 Games, 1925-2007, Ø=1993
Black scores above average (47%).
Elo-Ø: 2374, 12869 Games. Performance = Elo 2338
played by: Kasparov, 2763, 6/8; Karpov, 2761, 1.5/3; Kramnik, 2732, 30.5/54; Ponomariov, 2719, 1.5/3; Ivanchuk, 2705, 7/16;

You should play: 7.Qd2 Click for games

Kasparov,G - Ivanchuk,V 1-0; Kasparov,G - Kramnik,V 1-0; Kasparov,G - Kramnik,V 1-0; Ivanchuk,V - Kramnik,V 1-0; Leko,P - Morozevich,A 1-0; Shirov,A - Kramnik,V 1-0

Main line:

7...a6 8.0-0-0 Bd7 9.f4 52%, 2403 3044 Games Opening report 7...a6 8.0-0-0 h6 9.Be3 56%, 2447 2269 Games Opening report 7...Be7 8.0-0-0 0-0 56%, 2421 2958 Games Opening report

Critical line:
7...Be7 8.f4 a6 9.Be2 Bd7 32 % White. Click for games

---
b) 6...Bd7

2305 Games, 1905-2007, Ø=1993
Black scores above average (47%).
Elo-Ø: 2361, 1782 Games. Performance = Elo 2321
played by: Ivanchuk, 2735, 0/1; Grischuk, 2717, 0.5/2; Malakhov, 2678, 2/4; Dreev, 2671, 10.5/21; Salov, 2651, 1.5/3;

You should play: 7.Qd2 Click for games

Svidler,P - Dreev,A 1-0; Shirov,A - Ivanchuk,V 1-0; Ivanchuk,V - Salov,V 1-0; Grischuk,A - Malakhov,V 1-0; Nakamura,H - Grischuk,A 1-0; Svidler,P - Sherbakov,R 1-0

Main line:

7...Rc8 8.0-0-0 Nxd4 9.Qxd4 Qa5 10.f4 49%, 2342 211 Games Opening report 7...Rc8 8.0-0-0 Nxd4 9.Qxd4 Qa5 10.Bd2 57%, 2448 209 Games Opening report 7...Rc8 8.f4 61%, 2476 227 Games Opening report
7...Nxd4 8.Qxd4 Qa5 53%, 2371 213 Games Opening report

Critical line:
7...Nxd4 8.Qxd4 e6 9.Nb5 33 % White. Click for games

---
c) 6...Qb6

783 Games, 1933-2007, Ø=1996
Black scores above average (50%).
Elo-Ø: 2387, 642 Games. Performance = Elo 2347
played by: Svidler, 2690, 1/1; Miton, 2638, 1/1; Kortschnoj, 2635, 0.5/1; Ehlvest, 2635, 0.5/1; Motylev, 2634, 1/2;

You should play: 7.Nb3 Click for games

Ivanchuk,V - Delgado Ramirez,N 1-0; Hamdouchi,H - Xu Jun 1-0; Speelman,J - Gulko,B 1-0; Jobava,B - Motylev,A 1-0; Smirnov,P - Nijboer,F 1-0; Karjakin,S - Nijboer,F 1-0

Main line:

7...e6 8.Qd2 a6 9.0-0-0 Be7 10.f3 0-0 46%, 2397 180 Games Opening report 7...e6 8.Qd2 a6 9.0-0-0 Qc7 51%, 2449 97 Games Opening report 7...e6 8.Qd2 Be7 9.0-0-0 0-0 10.f3 Rd8 56%, 2446 389 Games Opening report 7...e6 8.Bd3 54%, 2450 85 Games Opening report

Critical line:
7...e6 8.Bxf6 gxf6 9.Qd2 Bd7 60 % White. Click for games

Sep-14-08  lost in space: voted for 6...e6
Sep-14-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  sbevan: Q b6 or Q a5 seem to give B the best winning % in the Richter-Rauzer, based on the Opening Explorer.

6...e6 4,045 37% 36.8% 26.2%

6...Bd7 503 39.6% 34.8% 25.6%

6...Qb6 223 29.6% 33.2% 37.2%

6...a6 155 38.1% 31.6% 30.3%

6...Qa5 28 50% 39.3%

6...g6 24 79.2% 16.7

6...e5 8 75% 12.5%

6...h6 7 42.9% 28.6% 28.6%

6...Nd7 Rohde vs T Dorsch, 1990 1-0

6...Nxd4 Short vs J Zylberman, 2001 1-0

28
6...g6
24
6...e5
8 6...h6
7 6...Nd7
Rohde vs T Dorsch, 1990 1-0

6...Nxd4
Short vs J Zylberman, 2001 1-0

Sep-14-08  classF: <Ruy Lopez: Is there something wrong with Bd7?>

I think it's OK. Here's a recent black correspondence win with 6...Bd7.

[Event "WCCC26CT05(WS)"]
[Site "ICCF"]
[Date "2007.2.10"]
[Round "-"]
[White "Grabner, Dr. Helmut"]
[Black "Pauwels, Christophe"]
[Result "0-1"]
[WhiteElo "2405"]
[BlackElo "2538"]

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 d6 6.Bg5 Bd7 7.Qd2 Rc8 8.O-O-O Nxd4 9.Qxd4 Qa5 10.Bd2 a6 11.f3 g6 12.Kb1 Bg7 13.g4 Qc7 14.g5 Nh5 15.Qd3 e6 16.f4 O-O 17.Be2 b5 18.a3 a5 19.Na2 f5 20.exf5 Rxf5 21.Bxh5 gxh5 22.Bc3 d5 23.Rhf1 Rcf8 24.Bxg7 Kxg7 25.Nc3 Rxf4 26.Nxb5 Qc4 27.Qxc4 Rxc4 28.Rxf8 Kxf8 29.Nd4 a4 30.Rd2 Ke7 31.b3 axb3 32.cxb3 Rc8 33.Rf2 e5 34.Nf5+ Bxf5+ 35.Rxf5 Kd6 36.Rf6+ Kc5 37.b4+ Kd4 38.b5 e4 39.Rc6 Rb8 40.b6 Kd3 41.Kc1 e3 42.Kd1 Rf8 43.b7 Rf1# 0-1

Sep-14-08  kwid: 6...e6 -> for the list

What a surprise! I expected f3 from him - definitely not Bg5.

Do we have mate in 33 moves?

1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. Nf3 d6 4. d4 cxd4 5. Nxd4 Nf6 6. Bg5 e6 7. Qd2 a6 8. O-O-O Bd7 9. f4 b5 10. Bxf6 gxf6 11. Kb1 b4 12. Nce2 Qb6 13. f5 e5 14. Nxc6 Bxc6 15. Ng3 Qc5 16. Bd3 Rg8 17. Nh5 Be7 18. Rhg1 a5 19. Qh6 a4 20. Qxh7 Rf8 21. Qh6 a3 22. Rge1 Rg8 23. Re2 axb2 24. Kxb2 Qc3+ 25. Kb1 Rxa2 26. Kxa2 Kd7 27. Nxf6+ Bxf6 #13

Sep-14-08  Dionyseus: So we have a Richter-Rauzer. Here's an excerpt from a book review (http://www.jeremysilman.com/book_re... ) about this opening:

The Richter-Rauzer variation of the Sicilian Defense (1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 d6 6.Bg5, with other ways to reach this key position) is a key battleground in super-grandmaster play. You'll find Anand, Kramnik, Ivanchuck, and Shirov among its proponents. For the average player, however, the Richter-Rauzer is also a reasonable choice. For one thing, black's development is a little quicker than in the Najdorf, which takes a bit of the razor's edge out of the position. Black can, if he chooses, get developed pretty quickly and play for fairly solid positions. On the other hand, he can also choose to mix it up quickly. This creates a defense with a fair amount of flexibility for the black player.

Above all else, the Richter-Rauzer leads to rich play, which a variety of development schemes for both white and black. It is strategically and tactically complex.

Sep-14-08  dotsamoht: Sticky updated with FENs reversed.

Let's get busy with this Richter-Rauzer!!!

Let's kick ass!!!

Sep-14-08  Karnatakiaditya: e6!!!!
Sep-14-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: So he wants a RR after all. 6...e6 for me.
Sep-14-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: I agree with <kwid> about the 8...h6 line. Probably the most promising.
Sep-14-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  kwgurge: 6...e6 for the poll.
Sep-14-08  Red October: does anyone have thoughts on

1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Nf3 d6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 Nf6 6.Bg5 a6 7.f3 ? is 7...Qa5 adequate ?

Sep-14-08  kwid: Sep-14-08

< classF: Is there something wrong with 6... Bd7?

Well, we may reach better positions with 6...e6 than Bd7. Just look at the positions below reachable for white with f4 etc or do we have better lines?

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 d6 6. Bg5 Bd7 7. Qd2 Rc8 8. f4 h6

(8... Qb6 9. Nb3 e6 10. Bxf6 gxf6 11. O-O-O)


click for larger view

9. Bxf6 gxf6 10. O-O-O Nxd4 11. Qxd4 Qa5 12. Kb1 Qc5 13. Qd3 Bg7 14. Nd5 a5 15. c3 a4 16. a3 h5 17. Qg3


click for larger view

Sep-14-08  ajile: I find this opening aRauzing!
Sep-14-08  Shajmaty: I join the 6...♗d7 + 7...♖c8 option. The lines with 7. ♗xf6, gxf6 are more than O.K. for Black.
Sep-14-08  g.mueller: My vote is 6...e6
Sep-14-08  Boomie: My initial interest in 6...Qb6 has flagged a bit. The line that bothers me is 6...Qb6 7. Nb3 e6 8. Bxf6 gxf6 9. Qd2. From here engines with an average rating of 2684 performed a dismal 2372.

Of the alternatives to 7...e6, only Be6 shows some promise. But there's only 2 games with this in the Rybka II book where black scored 1.5 and one game in the OE which black won. Interesting but not enough to sway the vote. One would have to write a complete theory around Be6 in one day and hawk it to the Team. That isn't going to happen.

I hate to say this because we should look at everything but e6 is going to win the vote and work on Qb6 is a waste of time even if it turns out to be a better move.

Sep-14-08  therangeravl: 6 ... e6 for the list
Sep-14-08  newton296: ...e6 for me

karpov , kasparov , kramnik , ivanchuck usually play ...e6 !

no way they can all be wrong !

Sep-14-08  Once: I have just posted the updated index of variations on my forum.

6. ... e6 has by far the most analysis. Looking at the votes it has received so far, it looks the clear favourite for the vote.

6. ... Qb6 also looks interesting, but considering how quickly people are voting for 6. ... e6 it seems to have no chance.

The other lines also look playable.

I'm going to watch the analysis develop before voting.

Sep-14-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  chancho: Ditto...
Sep-14-08  DPLeo: For the list: 6...e6
Sep-14-08  Judah: Voted e5 to prevent doubled pawns like e6 does, while gaining a tempo by kicking the Knight.
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