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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 11 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Feb-13-06 | | McCool: 30. ...♖c1+?? really bad move for black, he should have seen it coming. |
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| Apr-17-06 | | YoungFischerSnapper: Sherwin's move 30.. Rc1+ is obviously losing, so is Fischer's win credited more to his fine playing or Sherwin's blunder? Perhaps Fischer can be credited for the deep analysis, even though Sherwin made the losing game not under duress and pretty much gave Bobby the win? |
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Apr-23-06
 | | Sneaky: <30... Rc1+?? really bad move for black, he should have seen it coming.> How can you give two question marks to that move? Do you see a better move? <Sherwin's move 30.. Rc1+ is obviously losing, so is Fischer's win credited more to his fine playing or Sherwin's blunder?> It's not a blunder silly! There's nothing else! What do you suggest, 30...Rc8? Then 31.Ra8!! Or 30...Rc5? Then 31.Qf1!! The bottom line is 30.Rxf7!! is an incredible move that wins the game on the spot. If you want to find an improvement for Black you better go back at least to move 29. |
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| Apr-23-06 | | acirce: <Sneaky> Are you sure White's win is so certain after the engine suggestion 30..h5 ? Yes, he is pawn up, but it doesn't look easy. |
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| Apr-23-06 | | a30seclegend: <Acirce> what about 31.Rf3+ |
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Apr-23-06
| | Sneaky: Acirce as soon as I read your post I had a recollection of this ...h5 stuff. I admit, I just read the last few posts and didn't refresh on the previous conversation. From what I remember now, you're probably right, it's one of those incredible computer moves that turns a hopeless position into a murky position. Nevertheless, I stand by what I said. Some people need to go back to the dictionary and learn what a "blunder" is. |
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Apr-23-06
| | Sneaky: My computer gives this:
30...h5 31.Rf3+ Kh7 and now
(A) 32.Rxf8 Rc1+ 33.Rf1 Qf4!!
(B) 32.Rxc3 Qd2!!
These are just a few of the crazy variations hidden within the 30...h5 try, which I suspect is ultimately lacking. |
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Apr-23-06
 | | Pawn and Two: <Sneaky & arice> Soltis in, "Bobby Fischer Rediscovered", states the following regarding the move 30...h5: <Nevertheless, there is a White win - even though he must play a queen-and-pawn endgame after 30...h5 31.Rxf8+! Kxf8 32.Qf1+ Nf6 33.Rc4 Rxc4 34.Qxc4 Nxd5 35.exd5>. |
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| Apr-23-06 | | acirce: Thanks. Nice book that, I've borrowed it from the library a few times but don't own it. |
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| Apr-23-06 | | Shajmaty: <Sneaky: My computer gives this: 30...h5 31.Rf3+ Kh7>
I believe 31. Rc4, Rxc4; 32. Qxc4, Rxf7; 33. Bxf7 to be the best for White.
<Pawn and Two: Soltis in, "Bobby Fischer Rediscovered", states the following regarding the move 30...h5>
Soltis missed 32... Qf6! If, for instance, 33. Qxf6, gf6, there's still some hard work for White. |
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Apr-23-06
 | | beatgiant: How about 30...h5 31. Qb2, guarding c1 and also threatening Rxf8+ Kxf8 Qb8+. What do the engines say about that? |
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Apr-23-06
 | | offramp: This game is yet another example of how Fischer likes to keep his pieces far apart; ie no other white piece in the 8 squares around a white piece. |
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| Apr-23-06 | | Shajmaty: <beatgiant: How about 30...h5 31. Qb2, guarding c1 and also threatening Rxf8+ Kxf8 Qb8+.> After 31. Qb2??, Rxf7 wins easily. No engine required for that. Hint: take care of White's first rank! |
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Apr-23-06
| | beatgiant: <Shajmaty>
<After 31. Qb2??, Rxf7 wins easily. No engine required for that. Hint: take care of White's first rank!>30...h5 31. Qb2 Rxf7 32. Bxf7+ Kxf7 33. Qxc3, White's up the exchange and where's Black's win? |
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| Apr-23-06 | | Shajmaty: <beatgiant: 30...h5 31. Qb2 Rxf7 32. Bxf7+ Kxf7 33. Qxc3, White's up the exchange and where's Black's win?> How about 32...Kh7! instead of 32...Kf7?? If now 33. Qxc3, Qf4 and White is mated. I told U: first rank... |
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Apr-23-06
| | beatgiant: <Shajmaty>
Good point, I missed 32...Kh7 as you posted, which refutes my suggestion. At this point it looks to me like you are probably right about 30...h5 31. Rc4, etc. |
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Apr-24-06
| | Pawn and Two: <Shajmaty> You are correct. Soltis missed the possibility of 32...Qf6!. Your suggestion of 30...h5 31.Rc4! Rxc4 32.Qxc4 Rxf7 33.Bxf7+ appears to be the best for White. I am having Fritz 9 check the position after 33.Bxf7 to see if a clear winning line can be found. |
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Apr-24-06
| | Sneaky: FYI, when I said "My computer gives this" I was referring to a30seclegend's suggestion of 31.Rf3+. In fact it flips between 31.Rxf8+ and 31.Rc4 as the best move. |
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| Jul-10-06 | | potzer: i picked my name for a reason, but i don't understand why 30. ...Qxd5 doesn't work. |
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| Jul-10-06 | | zev22407: to potzer-if 30)..Q:d5 31)R:f8+ K:f8 32)Q-f1+ wining |
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| Jul-11-06 | | potzer: got it, thanks zev22407 |
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| Dec-02-06 | | YoungFischerSnapper: 21.. Nd7 is losing. Terrible move from Sherman. With the White's Bishop, Queen, and Rook converging on a mating attack in the f7 square, why lose position in the f6 square? Sherman is mated an attack pattern that stems from the simplicity of the Ruy Lopez opening. Opens up the floodgates for Fischer's 30. Rxf7! which is winning, as <Sneaky> suggested. |
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| Dec-22-06 | | m4n3z40: why didn't black played 13. ...cxb2 ???
look:
13. ...cxb2
14. Cxd1 bxa1=D
15. Cb7
or 13. ...cxb2
14.Cd2 bxa1=D
15.Dxa1 Bxc6
thats better isnt it? |
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| Dec-22-06 | | m4n3z40: oh i got it now! because of Bd4!!
yeah.. my line was terribly wrong... |
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| Mar-09-07 | | Atking: <Shajmaty: <Sneaky: My computer gives this: 30...h5 31.Rf3+ Kh7> I believe 31. Rc4, Rxc4; 32. Qxc4, Rxf7; 33. Bxf7 to be the best for White. <Pawn and Two: Soltis in, "Bobby Fischer Rediscovered", states the following regarding the move 30...h5> 30. ...h5! 31.RxRf8++ KxRf8 32.Qf1+ Nf6 33.Rc4 with an advantage to White <Soltis missed 32... Qf6! If, for instance, 33. Qxf6, gf6, there's still some hard work for White.> I have no program to test but 33.Ra8+ Ke7 34.Ra7+ K8 35.Qb1 isn't clearly to White's advantage ? |
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