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Oct-28-21
 | | 0ZeR0: My key reason for believing that mental health professionals would not have been successful with Fischer is that it seems pretty clear he did not want to help himself. He most likely did not even think there was a problem. My evidence for this is his generally hostile behavior to those who reacted negatively to his delusions, and the fact that he refused life saving treatment in the end. |
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Oct-28-21
 | | HeMateMe: BF might have turned out better with a stable home life from the get-go, two parents, normal school/social life, etc. Probably too late to change all of that as an adult. No reason to think that would change his chess career. Kasparov and Karpov were both big ego guys, arrogant, but were still married with children. If anything BF might have been world champion longer AND still be alive today. |
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Oct-28-21
 | | MissScarlett: <BF might have turned out better with a stable home life from the get-go, two parents, normal school/social life, etc.> And you could have been a doctor....you could have been eminent....you could have had a string of abortion clinics.... |
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Oct-28-21
 | | Dionysius1: Separate the 2 Fischers? Why should we - they were the same man. The same person who played the most wonderful lucid chess and had his opponents' respect across the chess board said dreadfully wicked things. I think it's an example of how we probably shouldn't judge. Or should judge actions, not people. |
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Oct-29-21
| | HeMateMe: If i had a string of abortion clinics we'd have one less Scarzzy... |
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Oct-29-21
 | | igiene: What a legend |
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| Nov-17-21 | | The Rocket: <Who is the best chess player of all time?> Deep Blue |
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| Nov-18-21 | | The Rocket: It's interesting glossing over Fischers candidate run in 71, how similar his style of play with the white pieces is at this point to a prime Capablanca. Fischer exhibits a clear preference towards simplifications into slight middle game advantages. He did this time and time again against Taimanov and Petrosian, and he always converted them, just like Capablanca did.
This despite the fact that Fischer was tactically supreme, on par with Spassky (though Spassky was a superior attacker with the white pieces). Fischer had superior positional understanding to Spassky, however, especially with the black pieces. Spassky had a tendency to overpush and underestimate positional finesses when playing with black. Fischers penchant for simplification I believe it had more to do with his dislike for muddy waters, than tactics themselves. There's a difference of course between spotting tactics and playing the best moves in those very double edged positions. Capablanca (who was both an e4 and d4 player in his prime) most likely had an influence on him with the white pieces. As black, Fischer was more of a principled variation type of player, with fighting openings. He believed in his selected systems so much that he would play completely different to his white games, partly due to his dislike of draws. So if he really knew the systems, he was willing to enter the complications. |
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Jan-07-22
| | MissScarlett: Bobby Fischer, chess engine before the chess engines: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4r... |
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Jan-08-22
 | | harrylime: <<The Rocket: It's interesting glossing over Fischers candidate run in 71, how similar his style of play with the white pieces is at this point to a prime Capablanca. Fischer exhibits a clear preference towards simplifications into slight middle game advantages. He did this time and time again against Taimanov and Petrosian, and he always converted them, just like Capablanca did. This despite the fact that Fischer was tactically supreme, on par with Spassky (though Spassky was a superior attacker with the white pieces)>> Nice post. And some interesting points you make. We are deffo going thru a mega period of <recency Bias> at the mo ... I think the advance in engine tech has something to do with this. Plus the explosion in India and China of chess talent. Having played thru lots of the games of the recent Rapid and Blitz championships in Warsaw ,I can confidently say Bobby would be licking his Brooklyn lips at the oppostion on offer ! I dread to think what a Spassky or Tal would do to some of those "blitz" players ... and the mistakes they were making. |
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Jan-08-22
| | harrylime: Nakamura is a modern day "Coffee House" player ... as indeed is Nepo... They can swindle and squirm and bluff in blitz chess but would get torn apart in classical chess by a Smyslov or a Fischer... |
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Jan-08-22
| | harrylime: Oh and Bobby's Bio on here is still shocking in its ignorance and lack of understanding of the enormity of his chess career. |
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| Jan-08-22 | | Lotus96: Harry, you seem to be stuck in a time warp with your tastes. Do you still use punch cards to give your computer instructions, or have you upgraded to Windows 3.1 by now? ☺ As for Fischer, yes of course he was a great player, and I guess we would all like to play like him. Facing him across the board must have been an intimidating experience, like someone going for a swim knowing a Great White was in the water and wondering when their legs were going to be bitten off. However, I don't think he was the greatest ever. There are two reasons for that. The first reason is his lack of longevity as world number one. That's why Kasparov still gets my vote. Twenty years at the top, and when he retired in 2005 he was still world number one. An amazing record, especially in modern chess. Kasparov was truly "The Boss" of world chess for twenty years. Fischer never accomplished that. My second reason is concerned with the psychological pressures on world champions. When a player becomes the world champion, he walks around with a target on his back. Everyone is gunning for him, everyone plays their best game for the chance of the glory that comes with beating him. Fischer ran away from all that and never played after winning his title. Psychologically, he couldn't handle the pressure, and that means he cannot be considered the greatest ever. Another great player, Karpov, had this to say about those pressures: "On my own experience, I already knew that from the Champion only top results and only first places were demanded and expected. I also knew that the Champion did not receive, together with his laurel wreath, an insurance policy against misfortune, or any sort of magic wand, which would enable him, in contrast to mere mortals, to always be in top form." And again:
"Champions are normally criticized for the fact that they rarely play. But what are they to do? After all, in any tournament they are expected to take only first place ; second is already a failure, while third or fourth is virtually a fiasco. But this is just not possible, to win every tournament, one after another. This means that the only thing to do is not to play very often, and this is what my predecessors did. But I like playing, and I intend to play. " [Both quotes from Chess Is My Life.] As champion, Karpov played magnificently for about ten years and didn't shirk tournament challenges. Like Kasparov, he showed he was a true champion who could bear the weight of the pressure and expectations loaded onto him. Fischer never even came close to doing that, so his position in the chess pantheon must be knocked down a place or two. |
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Jan-08-22
| | harrylime:
<<Lotus96: Harry, you seem to be stuck in a time warp with your tastes. Do you still use punch cards to give your computer instructions, or have you upgraded to Windows 3.1 by now? ☺
As for Fischer, yes of course he was a great player, and I guess we would all like to play like him. Facing him across the board must have been an intimidating experience, like someone going for a swim knowing a Great White was in the water and wondering when their legs were going to be bitten off.>> Listen man I respect your opinions on chess and Bobby .... they are the same as most of the generation who grew up with the two K's ... Fischer is something else ... something special. Something unique. Something great. Let me put it this way .. Nobody I know has heard of Kasparov... even after 400 years as world champion ... Yet they have heard of Bobby Fischer.You dig ? |
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| Jan-08-22 | | Lotus96: I think it's not correct to say that few people (those you know?) have heard of Kasparov. He had a very high profile for two decades. If nothing else, his matches against Deep Blue drew loads of mainstream media attention. But hey, if you like Fischer above everyone else, you're entitled to your opinion. By the way, are you a bona-fide original hippie, or are you giving me the run-around with all that "You dig?" stuff? Far out! Haha. |
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| Jan-08-22 | | Lotus96: //The Rocket: It's interesting glossing over Fischers candidate run in 71, how similar his style of play with the white pieces is at this point to a prime Capablanca. Fischer exhibits a clear preference towards simplifications into slight middle game advantages.// Yes, Fischer can be considered a kind of 'Capablanca on steriods', with a much greater work ethic (let's face it, Cabablanca was a bit of a lazy dog) and a style which I would characterise as aggressive lucidity. |
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Jan-08-22
| | harrylime:
<<Lotus96: I think it's not correct to say that few people (those you know?) have heard of Kasparov. He had a very high profile for two decades. If nothing else, his matches against Deep Blue drew loads of mainstream media attention.
But hey, if you like Fischer above everyone else, you're entitled to your opinion.By the way, are you a bona-fide original hippie, or are you giving me the run-around with all that "You dig?" stuff? Far out! Haha.> > Far out man. You dig Bobby ? lol
San Francisco - Scott McKenzie
https://youtu.be/7I0vkKy504U |
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Jan-08-22
| | harrylime: <<<<Lotus96>By the way, are you a bona-fide original hippie, or are you giving me the run-around with all that "You dig?" stuff? Far out! Haha.>> Bobby is a Child of the Moon.
The Rolling Stones
Child Of The Moon
https://youtu.be/dlNyHtwOgsE |
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Jan-08-22
 | | Sally Simpson: A good article in the latest CHESS (Jan 2022) on Bobby Fischer by James J Essinger One point raised is that Fischer did it all on his own when he 'got good' in the mid 50's. Compared with today there were very few good chess books about. No Computers. No chess training schools with very strong instructors like they had in Russia where chess was financed by the state. In the West there was no chess infrastructure to support such a talent. No rubbing shoulders with very strong team mates to bounce ideas off like they had in Russia who later on pooled their legends v him, Tal, Spassky, Geller, Petrosian... The article finishes with a well noted up game; Fischer vs Benko, 1963 |
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Jan-08-22
| | harrylime: Hey I respect all opinions really ...
The Two K's
Capa
Morphy ( tho there was no net back then)
Saint Mag of the Fjords
I could go on .....zzzzzz lol
They are ALL great great chess players...
Fischer is my WOW factor tho ...
What he did .How he did it .. like a James Dean playin chess kinda thing ... whuppin the commies ... with games of such beauty.... Up against the world . The Chess world. And winnin ... Against ALL odds... Bobby has the WOW factor ...
Kate Bush - Wow - ABBA in Switzerland
https://youtu.be/0PimWpl_4RY |
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Jan-08-22
| | harrylime: Altered Images
I Could Be Happy
https://youtu.be/dfqPJp7Q7qE |
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Jan-17-22
 | | technical draw: Today is the anniversary of Fischer's death in 2008. And the debate of Fischer's "greatness" continues. |
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Jan-17-22
 | | perfidious: <td>, what are you on about? He was just another player. (rolls eyes) |
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Jan-17-22
| | Dionysius1: Yep, Bobby Fischer is a great hero of mine. It's just fun to knock the publicity that surrounds him. Doesn't stop him being an all time great. The gift that keeps on giving :-) |
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Jan-17-22
| | technical draw: An interesting analysis of Bobby Fischer's personality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmk... |
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