|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 5 OF 9 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Dec-30-05
 | | WannaBe: <thathwamasi> The term, is French, for "Adjust". Apparently in this game, Garry moved/touched a piece then moved a different one. Read the full 4 pages of kibitzing for more detailed info. |
|
| Dec-30-05 | | THE pawn: J'aboude comes from the french verb Adouber, which has many definitions: I really don't know how to say this in english but adouber first means:'' to make someone a knight or a chevalier. Is there a word for that??? Or it has this meaning, but it obviously has no link with the game:'' to put butter or lard in a soup'' It has something to do with the first definition, unless I'm missing something! |
|
| Dec-30-05 | | THE pawn: <wannabe> Adouber doesn't mean to adjust. |
|
| Dec-30-05 | | THE pawn: <suenteus po 147> strange because I never used that word or never seen it in a text for that matter as a chess use. I never said that also! |
|
| Dec-30-05 | | suenteus po 147: <THE pawn> Regardless of the actual definition, we say "j'adoube" meaning it as "adjust." |
|
| Dec-30-05 | | THE pawn: Ok, that really makes sense with what happened in the game. Say, I wanna know, do any of you guys use it when adjusting a piece in a tournament, because I never said that in my whole life (I'm talking like I've been living for 100 years!). |
|
| Dec-30-05 | | ajile: Looks like White lost the thread in this game. She had the possibility of a K-side attack after the opening but didn't coordinate her pieces to attain this. Black had virtually no counterplay at this point in the center (d6 pawn stuck) and queenside (b5 not possible). I think White should have gone for the pawn storm on the K-side to take advantage of her mobility on that side. But instead she let Kasparov back into the game by allowing a fight in the center and exchange of pieces. 25. Nd2 was bad allowing the Black Queen into C5 and B4. and 27. Be2 was even more horrible. After that Kasparov simply outplayed her. |
|
Dec-30-05
| | WannaBe: <THE pawn> I don't embarass myself by trying to speak french, so I set my pieces up right and place my piece right. But most American say "Adjust". =) |
|
| Dec-30-05 | | suenteus po 147: <THE pawn> I've said "adjust" (not the french word) in a few games. However, more interesting, I have been caught violating the touch move rule! It was a game against a higher rated player and I was winning! I was deep in study of this position near the endgame and I placed my hand on a pawn, intending to move it. As I stared at the board, hand on pawn, I suddenly realized that if I moved the pawn I would miss a golden opportunity to cinch a win! I took my hand off the pawn and leaned back in my chair, re-evaluating based on the discovery. I was confident in my analysis and moved my knight instead. Horror of horrors when my opponent turned my knight on its side and called the TD over saying I had broken the rules! I felt so ashamed! When he said "touch-move" I suddenly remembered I had spent a whole minute holding the pawn between my fingers before discovering a better line. The punishment was simply two minutes added to my opponent's clock (he was still down on time anyway), but I was mortified. After the game (I still won), I apologized profusely to my opponent who merely grumbled that it was fine, but then stalked off, apparently sour about the whole game. To this day I still literally sit on my hands during live games to prevent such reckless behavior! |
|
Dec-30-05
 | | Sneaky: J'adboube is French for "Good god! If I move this piece I will lose!" ;-) Playing in a weekend tournament, I said "J'adoube" and adjusted a piece. My opponent said "Come again?" I whispered back to him, "I said J'adoube!" He looked at me blankly. I was really surprised to meet anybody who is into chess and doesn't know this term, but there are some! From now on I think I might say "adjust." |
|
| Dec-30-05 | | THE pawn: <suenteus po 147> Hahaha! I don't know if I'm allowed to laugh on this, but that must have been embarassing! In nearly every tournament I participated there was this rule, but there is not such ''adjust'' or the ugly ''...j'adoube''. When you wanna adjust your piece, you just tell the other player. That doesn't look serious, but in fact, where I live (Quebec), chess is really not that popular so most tournament I participated in were locals and they didn't really care if rules were broken, as long as it didn't degenerate. Since I have participated in so many local tournaments, when I got to play into more serious ones, I wasn't really accustomed to the touch-move rule, so I can say I got screwed a couple of times. |
|
| Dec-30-05 | | notsodeepthought: For what it's worth, a quick google search of "J'adoube" gave me the following comment from no less than the Dictionnaire de L'Académie française, 1st Edition (1694): ADOUBER (Page 12)
ADOUBER. verbe actif. Accommoder. Il ne se dit guere qu'au jeu du Tric-trac & des Eschecs, J'adoube, Pour faire entendre qu'on touche une piece sans avoir dessein de la joüer, mais seulement pour la ranger. Eh bien (that's my comment, not the Dictionnaire's - my French is slightly more limited). |
|
| Dec-30-05 | | ISeeChessPeople: All great players have deep paranoia. They think everyone is out to get them (even when they KNOW everyone isn't out to get them). Fischer, of course, is Exhibit A. But Kaspy fits right in. |
|
| Dec-30-05 | | EmperorAtahualpa: I couldn't find "adouber" in my Le Robert & Collins English-French dictionary, so I looked for "j'adoube" on yahoo.com, and found what I was looking for! It is not actually French, but just chess parlance with its own peculiar history! The following should clarify what "j'adoube" actually means: "J'adoube - An expression denoting unwillingness to move the piece touched. The derivation comes from an old English phrase, 'Shut up', formerly the conventional response to: 'You've touched that piece, you've got to move it.' Later the introductory phrase was omitted by the aggrieved player, and the piece toucher would automatically say 'Shut up' without the need for prompting. This was taken into middle High Flemish where it appeared as Schodop and later came into old Northern French as J'odeupe or J'adoube." Hartston, William, Soft Pawn, Macmillan Publishing, 1995 (ISBN: 185744145-1) http://www.tervo.ca/chess/jadoube.htm |
|
Dec-30-05
| | Sneaky: In Jamaica they say "Jah doobie"
:-Q |
|
Dec-30-05
 | | lostemperor: What happens frequently in GM games is I cannot explain certain moves like 27. Be2 here? That gives up a centerpawn and seem a mistake IMHO. Surely it cannot be overlooked by Judit. |
|
| Dec-30-05 | | EmperorAtahualpa: <I cannot explain certain moves like 27. Be2 here?> <lostemperor> A very interesting question, I am wondering about the very same thing sometimes! Is there perhaps a qualified kibitzer willing to answer this question? Perhaps <Eric Schiller> or <Ray Keene> or <Honza Cervenka>? |
|
| Dec-30-05 | | lopium: notsodeepthought, the difinition you gave here has some errors. "Il ne se dit guère..." with an accent on guere. Échecs instead of Eschecs.
"Tric-trac & des Eschecs, J'adoube, Pour faire entendre .... " This is bad written, the J should be j. And the second coma should be a point.
Well, if you really want to learn French, then read some good stuff! |
|
| Dec-30-05 | | euripides: <lopium> was 'eschecs' incorrect in 1694 ? |
|
| Dec-30-05 | | euripides: ... a quick google search appears to confirm my suspicion that the form 'eschecs' is found as late as Philidor. |
|
| Dec-30-05 | | dakgootje: <EmperorAtahualpa> Thank you for posting that as i, while reading the comments, did recall such a story and was not very happy that no-one else seemed to have posted about it, so i would have to search for it myself =) I learned always that you had to say J'adoube when you wanted to adjust a piece. However I learned too that it was a good thing to do to when you wanted to move a piece and then suddenly saw a better move (like in this game) with possible some extra complicated movements while trying to get it bank on its square, so youre opponent gets an excuse for that it takes so long for you to get it on its square as you seem an immense moron. =) Besides that if you say it not too clearly your opponent will maybe ask for an explenation and thus you distract him from the game =P |
|
| Dec-30-05 | | lopium: I don't know about 1694, my father should know but ain't in my country, so I guess it can be good. But maybe not, I don't know. Usually in French, the "ê" is a contraction of "es" in Latin, or old French. Not the "é" but maybe yes in this case, I really don't know. For example " Forêt" in French, was Forest before. It means forest in English! To be : "être" in Spanish it is "Estar" (or ser). So we can find many ressemblances between languages, even if they don't have the same roots (French-English), for the less if they let some exchenges cross their own form/grammar. |
|
Dec-30-05
| | WannaBe: <suenteus po 147:... sitting on my hands...> I have given that idea some thoughts myself, and I have seen people do that during tournament play. Now, for the hypothetical question, if you had placed your hand on that pawn for (in your story, a minute?) then say "Adjust", things are cool again?? (That's a long time for adjustment.) |
|
| Dec-30-05 | | euripides: <lopium> The initial e-acute is very frequent in French words that have come from Latin starting in s. Such words will often start with es in modern Spanish and old Frency, but s in modern French and Italian. The French e'crire (I don't have an accent on my keypad) from the Latin scribere is an example; you will (I am pretty sure) find escrire in renaisssance French, (as reflected in the English term for an old writing desk taken straight from French, escritoire) and the Spanish is escribir, with the Italian scrivere. (Also, rather unusually, the word turns up in German as schreiben and in the English scribe). Other examples that occur to me include e'tat, e'pine, e'tendre, e'cole and e'cran (screen in english, though I'm not sure of the derivation of e'cran). I think the normal form of all these words in renaiisance French would include an s. The circumflex is mainly used in the middle of words; e^tre is (I think) rather unusual in starting with an e-circumflex. Of course some of its other tenses start with an e-acute, as with the past participle e'te' and the imperfect e'tais; these probably come from the Latin root 'stare' rather than 'esse', as do the equivalent forms in Spanish and Italian. So eschecs from the Latin scacci or ludus scachicus is entirely normal. |
|
| Dec-30-05 | | suenteus po 147: <WannaBe> I think proper etiquette is to say "adjust" at the moment you are touching it. So no, it wouldn't have worked for me to say "adjust" after the minute I held it. It was obvious I was intending to move it. |
|
 |
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 5 OF 9 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
Annotations by 
sac: 42...Qe4