|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 4 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Oct-22-09 | | zooter: Ok, I think I got this fairly quickly
44...Ng3+ 45.hxg3 (forced) hxg3...Now black threatens mate by Qf2 Now,
a) 46.Re2 Qh5 (threatening mate on h1) 47.Rb2 (to protect the queen) Qh1+ 48.Kd2 Qf2# b) 46.Qc2 seems a better defense and I'm in a bit of hurry, so will check what the correct continuation is.. |
|
| Oct-22-09 | | zooter: aha, I wanted to end my b) line saying b) 46.Qb2/Qc2 meets with a similar end after 46...Qh5 But unfortunately I did not see that after 47.White pass Qh1+ 48.Ke2 Qxg2# (I missed the fact that there is a mate on g2 too) Half point and a good lesson for me... |
|
| Oct-22-09 | | blackjacki2: very easy thursday puzzle. especially with rook pinned there aren't a lot of moves available |
|
| Oct-22-09 | | gofer: 44 ... Ng3+
45 hxg3 fxg3
Now black is threatening Qf2#. White has two "real" choices Re2, Qb2/Qc2 and they both lose to Qh5! 1) 46 Re2 Qh5 47 Rb2 Qh1+ 48 Ke2 Qxg2+ 49 Ke1 Qg1+ 50 Ke2 Qf2# 2) 46 Qb2/Qc2 Qh5
2a) 47 Rb1/Rc1 Qh1+ 48 Ke2 Qxg2+ 49 Ke1 Qg1+ 50 Ke2 Qf2# 2b) 47 Ke2 Qh2 48 Rb1/Rc1 Qxg2+ (the last two moves for white can come in either order but we will get to the point where the rook is protecting the queen or the queen will be lost with Qxg2+) 49 Ke1 Qg1+ 50 Ke2 Qf2# So then we come to the third choice to stop mate, which isn't so great... 3) 46 Qxd3 cxd3
47 Re2 dxe2+
48 Kxe2 Qxe7+
Err... is this really an option... probably not...
Time the check... |
|
| Oct-22-09 | | WhenHarryMetSally: Let’s see how we go:
Material: Dead even.
Position: White is a few moves away from mate, the black king restricted with the white knight making life difficult. Black has some advanced pawns which he may wish to capitalize on. The black rook is pinned in front of the black king, the white queen on the diagonal threatening with a check if black gives him access, and possibly mate, if white can work together with his knight. 44…..Ng3+,
45. Pxg3 (white’s only option is to take the knight).…..Pxg3. Mate is threatened by black with Qf2++. This must be averted. White has a number of options by which to defend the f2 attack (Qb2 or Qc2 or re2). But, the second the white queen moves away from the b1-h7 file, this allows the black rook to move from the d3 square…. 46. Qc2, Qh5?? 47. Ke2
[If king does not move to e2, then the next move (unless white forces a miracle) by black is 47….Qh1+; 48 Ke2, Qxg2++]. 47…..Qe5# there is nothing white can do. |
|
| Oct-22-09 | | chesskingqph: <dzechiel> You're right in principle, but the continuation after 47 Ke2 Qh2 48 Qxd3 ... must be a bit different because 48 is actually Qxd3+, Black has to capture the white queen I think. |
|
| Oct-22-09 | | stacase: I saw 44...Ng3+ and 45...hxg3 almost right away, but it took forever to see 46...Qh6 I doubt that I would have seen it over the board. |
|
| Oct-22-09 | | TrollKing: Nuts!! I saw the whole line
and rejected it. I thought there was nothing for Black. Only now do I realize that the White King is boxed in by the Black Rook.The Black Queen will come to h2, threatening to take the pawn on g2. White will have to give up his Queen for the Rook to give the King an escape. Double nuts!! |
|
| Oct-22-09 | | TheaN: Thursday 22 October 2009
<44....?>
Target: 3:30;000
Taken: 3:10;414
Birdie: -10s <> -1m
Material: =
Candidates: Rxf3†, <[Ng3†]> -ML-
At first I was looking at the demolition Rxf3†. Still speculating whether it was actually useful or not, I noticed the Rook was pinned. So, the main force of the attack had to come from the Queen, Knight and ♙f4, albeit the fact that the Black is very well positioned as it is now. That quickly let to the key move: <44....Ng3†! 45.hxg3 fxg3> the forcing nature of this position is that White is threatened by Qf2‡, and has not a whole lot of moves to prevent it. The Rook defense loses quickly: /A\
<46.Re2? Qh5> showing the destructive power of the opened h-file and the threat on f2. As much as it matters, White gets mated now. <47.Rb2> otherwise Qh1‡. <47....Qh1‡ 48.Ke2 Qxg2† 49.Ke1 Qg1† 50.Ke2 Qf2‡ 0-1> so, White has to defend with the Queen. Either b2 or c2 do not really matter, although White would want to keep the Black Rook in a pin anyway. /B\
<46.Qc2 (46.Qb2) Qh5> same move, same threat, slightly different defense. White has only one significant change in this position, and that is the unoccupied e2 square. White can avoid a check with 47.Ke2: <47.Ke2 Qh2!> but the position is hopeless. <48.Kf1 Qh1† 49.Ke2 Qxg2‡ 0-1> time to check. |
|
| Oct-22-09 | | DarthStapler: I got like 60% of it |
|
| Oct-22-09 | | whiteshark: Got it. In the final position the white King is in a cage. Threat is 47...Qh1+ and 48...Qxg2#. Due to Rd3 there is no escape via d1. |
|
| Oct-22-09 | | randomsac: I was on the right track, but I couldn't think of the last (and important) move. |
|
| Oct-22-09 | | agb2002: Material is even. The white queen pins the black rook and may try the maneuver Qb8-Qg8#. However, the white king is surrounded by four black pieces which suggests 44... Ng3+ 45.hxg3 fxg3, threatening 46... Qf2# and 46... Qh5 followed by ... Qh1+, etc.: A) 46.Qb2 Qh5
A.1) 47.Qb8 Qh1+ 48.Ke2 Qxg2#.
A.2) 47.Rb1 Qh1+ 48.Ke2 Qxg2+ 49.Ke1 Qg1+ 50.Ke2 Qf2#. A.3) 47.Ke2 Qh2 48.Rf1 Qxg2+ 49.Ke1 Qxb2 - + [Q+2P vs N]. B) 46.Qc2 Qh5
B.1) 47.Rc1 Qh1+ as in A.2.
B.2) 47.Ke2 Qh2 48.Qxd3+ (48.Rf1 Qxg2+ as in A.3) cxd3 49.Kxd3 Qxg2 - + with Q+P vs R+N but White will lose more material to stop the pawn on g3. C) 46.Re2 Qh5
C.1) 47.Rf2 Qh1+ 48.Ke2 Qxb1 49.Rf1 Qc2+ 50.Ke1 Qd2#. C.2) 47.Rb2 Qh1+ 48.Ke2 Qxg2+ 49.Ke1 Qg1+ 50.Ke2 Qf2#. |
|
| Oct-22-09 | | zanshin: I saw <44...Ng3+> but rejected it as insufficient. I also would never have seen that playing <44.Qb1??> in the diagram was such a blunder resulting in an eval drop from -0.13 to -7.86!
click for larger view |
|
| Oct-22-09 | | CHESSTTCAMPS: Material is even, but white's king position is much shakier, with the absence of a pawn on f2 creating a big gash in the frontal protection. Black's Rd3 is pinned, but it can do its part where it is. As is so often the case, examining forcing continuations first pays dividends; even when it does not produce a combination, it often helps to clarify understanding of the position. Therefore, black should attack the weak square directly: 44... Ng3+ 45.hxg3 fxg3
Threatens Qf2# and makes the new g-pawn as valuable as a piece. No defense can prevent a decisive invasion of the queen: A) 46.Ke2 Qf2#
B) 46.Re2 Qh5 47.Kg1 Qh2+ 48.Kf1 Qh1#
B.1) 47.Re1 Qh1+ 48.Ke2 Qxg2#
B.2) 47.Re3(or e4/e5/e6) Qh1+ 48.Ke2 Qxg2+ 49.Ke1 Qf2# B.3) 47.Rb2(or c2) Qh1+ 48.Ke2 Qxg2+ 49.Ke1 Qg1+ 50.Ke2 Qf2# B.4) 47.Qxd3+ cxd3 48.R moves Qh1#
C) 46.Qc2(or b2) Qh5 47.Ke2 Qh2 48.Qxd3+ cxd3+ 49.Kxd3 Qxg2 wins quickly - stopping black's g-pawn costs a rook. C.1) 47.Rc1(or b1) Qh1+ 48.Ke2 Qxg2+ 49.Ke1 Qg1+ 50.Ke2 Qf2# C.2) 47.Rg1 Qxg1 wins quickly,
All other white alternatives at move 47 are similar to the B-lines: black mates with the Q on h1, g2, or f2 as needed. D) 46.Qxd3+ cxd3 47.Re2 dxe2+ wins |
|
| Oct-22-09 | | goodevans: Either I'm missing something or that was rather easy. Time to check the other posts to see if I overlooked some clever defence. |
|
| Oct-22-09 | | johnlspouge: Thursday (Medium):
Ahues vs Sultan Khan, 1930 (44...?) White to play and win.
Material: Even. The White Kf1 has 1 legal move, e2, which would interfere with the Re1 guarding Ne7. The Black Qc5 attacks Nd7. The White Qb1 pins Rd3 to Kh7, restricting the candidates considerably. The Black Kh7 is secured from check. Candidates (44...): Ng3+
44…Ng3+ 45.hxg3 fxg3 (threatening 46.Qf2#)
Black also threatens 46…Qh5, then
(A) 47…Qh1+ 48.Ke2 Qxg2+ 49.Ke1 Qg1+ 50.Ke2 Qf2#
With the Black Q + monster Pg3, Rd3 makes the White Kf1 spam in a can. (1) 46.Re2 Qh5 (threatening 47.Qh1#)
47.Rb2 [R any other Qh1+ wins Qb1] permits Threat (A). (2) 46.Qc2 [Qb2 is similar, but worse]
46…Qh5 47.Ke2 [else, Threat (A)] Qh2
Black only delays mate with 48.Rg1 Qxg1, so at best (and there is probably worse) he must sacrifice Q for R+P, leaving himself a hopeless endgame with R+N vs. Q+P. |
|
| Oct-22-09 | | goodevans: <Either I'm missing something or that was rather easy. Time to check the other posts to see if I overlooked some clever defence.> Nope, nothing clever overlooked. Very easy for a Thursday. |
|
| Oct-22-09 | | Patriot: When I first looked at this position it was hard to see that black had any advantage at all. With the black rook pinned, it's hard to see what he can possibly do. Any winning ideas didn't immediately present themselves, so I just had to start looking at forcing moves first. 44...Ng3+ is about as forcing as it gets.
45.hxg3 fxg3
Threatening Qf2#.
46.Qc2/Re2
This stumped me for a while and then spotted the key move. 46...Qh5
What I think makes this hard to consider is that it doesn't seem very forcing at first. Normally I consider checks, captures, and threats whereas threats usually involve attacking loosely or unguarded pieces or threatening mate. But this move only threatens a check, which isn't always a threat. After further inspection the "threat" is actually a winning sequence starting with Qh1+. So as white it would be even more difficult to see that 44.Qb1 loses to 44...Ng3+. |
|
| Oct-22-09 | | 5hrsolver: What is hard to visualize sometimes is a square made available by some piece leaving that square. So it is with the h5 square, after 44..Ng3+ the h5 square is now available to the queen. I saw 44..Ng3+ instantly but did not see the follow up right away because I wasn't mentally seeing the h5 square as vacant. Anyone else had this problem? |
|
| Oct-22-09 | | CHESSTTCAMPS: <Shrsolver>
Yes, this was called the "retained image" problem by Krogius and it can adversely affect visualization just one or two turns ahead. I also experienced it with this puzzle - saw Ng3+ right away, but took a while to find Qh5. Also, <Patriot> and some others indicate this in their posts. I think this problem gradually goes away as you work a lot of problems, especially Friday-Saturday-Sunday puzzles that can go really deep. |
|
| Oct-22-09 | | Patriot: <5hrsolver> That's what my coach calls a "retained image" error, where even though you've mentally moved a piece you still see it on that square. My problem was seeing the immediate value of putting the queen on h5 because it didn't seem forcing enough until I finally considered it and everything lit up like a lightbulb. |
|
| Oct-22-09 | | dakgootje: <dzechiel> your "47 Ke2 Qh2 48 Qxd3 Qxg2+ 49 Kd1 cxd3"-continuation is quite impossible since 48. Qxd3 is check :) |
|
Oct-22-09
 | | chrisowen: Black steps up to the plate with the most forcing move Ng3+. The knight swings in throwing him a curveball. Looking to bowl him over it seems then hxg3 fxg3 Qc2 Qh5! hits white out of the park. |
|
| Oct-22-09 | | lzromeu: I do it. Qh5 is a double threat. No scape for white (unless sac the Queen). The easiest of the week. Another comment 43...Qc2 was a brilliant unpin of the rook. The exchange would be take a pawn up and passed a pair of then. |
|
 |
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 4 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
Annotations by 
sac: 44...Ng3+