|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 11 OF 11 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Jul-30-12 | | Ulhumbrus: If Wang Hao overlooked the resource of 46...Nb6! when he made the choice of 43 Qb2 followed by 44 Qb5, this suggests that in order to avoid going too far trying to win, he had to foresee all such resources. |
|
Jul-30-12
 | | al wazir: I don't understand why Wang forced the trade of his heavy pieces at moves 42--45. I'm poor at endgames, but I know a few rules of thumb, like: When you're ahead, trade pieces; when you're behind, trade pawns. |
|
| Jul-30-12 | | andrewjsacks: I would like to see some solid analysis at White's 41st move. Is the Black a pawn really immune to either capture? |
|
| Jul-30-12 | | latvalatvian: Carlsen is probably better than me |
|
| Jul-30-12 | | whiteshark: <latvalatvian> http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/at... |
|
Jul-30-12
 | | perfidious: <andrewjsacks: I would like to see some solid analysis at White's 41st move. Is the Black a pawn really immune to either capture?> Looking at this, I don't see any problem with either 41.Qxa5 Qxa5 42.Nxa5 Ra8 43.Nb7 or 41.Nxa5 Ra8 for White, but neither do I see any advantage. The variation which goes into an ending in particular looks level and should turn into a draw fairly quickly, but the main problem from Wang's point of view may have been that this was the first move after the time check, and that he had been putting the heat on his opponent throughout the middlegame. Making the psychological adjustment to the change in circumstances can be very difficult indeed. |
|
| Jul-30-12 | | Eyal: <[...] White's 41st move. Is the Black a pawn really immune to either capture?> It's "immune" in the sense that capturing it leads to the loss of White's a-pawn and thus to a clear draw, after the liquidation of all the Q-side pawns: 41.Qxa5 Qxa5 42.Nxa5 Ra8 43.Nb7, or 41.Nxa5 Ra8. The point is that at this stage of the game Hao was still playing for a win, not for a draw. The same question is actually more interesting two moves later: 43.Nxa5 doesn't bring White anything subtantial after 43...Qa6!; 43.Qxa5? actually loses to 43...Qb3 44.Ndb2 Ne5!! or 44.Ncb2 Qc2+ followed by 45...c4 (but not 44...c4 immediately because of 45.Qb4!). The point where the tables turned was move 46 - Hao clearly missed 46...Nb6! (47.Nxb6 a3 and the pawn queens). White could easily force a practically dead drawn position at this point by 46.b6 [instead of Ndb2?] a3 47.Nxa3 Nxb6 48.Nxc5. |
|
| Jul-30-12 | | andrewjsacks: <perfidious> I consult no chess engine, and my masterly skills may have waned somewhat over the past few years of tournament inactivity, but I suspect that the pawn was not immune to both possible captures, and that it was at this point that Wang began to "lose it." I see no reason for him to lose this game at move 40. |
|
| Jul-30-12 | | andrewjsacks: <Eyal> I agree. The 46...Nb6 "shot" must have been a very unpleasant surprise for Hao. |
|
| Jul-30-12 | | Eyal: <<<55...Nd6 attacks the b5 pawn and keeps White's King back. On 55..Nd6 56 b6 Kd8 57 Nc4 Nxc4 58 Kxc5 Kc8 White's King can do nothing and Black's King heads for the b6 pawn> Yes, but instead of 57.Nc4? White can counter-attack Black's a-pawn with his king: 57.Kc3 Kc8 58.Kb2 Kb7 59.Ka3.> That leaves black a pawn ahead. Carlsen finds however a better way. He does not try to prevent Kc4 and he ends up winning the b pawn for nothing and the game> Actually, there's a way for White to remain only one pawn down even after <55...Kd8!>: 56.b6 Kc8 57.Nc4 Kb7 58.Kc2 Kc6 (preparing Nd6) 59.Nb2 Kxb6 60.Nxa4+ Kb5: 
click for larger viewBut this, with the black king invading and a backward white king, is clearly better for Black than the position at the end of the line starting with 55..Nd6(?) 56.b6 Kd8 57.Kc2 (after the a & b pawns have gone off the board): 
click for larger viewBtw, it's instructive to compare the line 55..Nd6 56.b6 Kd8 57.Kc2 Kc8 58.Kb2 Kb7 59.Ka3 Kxb6 60.Kxa4 with 55...Kd8 56.Kc2 Kc7 57.Kb2 Kb6 58.Ka3 Kxb5. In both the black kings makes the same number of moves, but in the second he reaches a better square, in time to defend its own pawn. |
|
| Jul-30-12 | | Bobby Fiske: Who does Magnus Carlsen think he is? -Does he really think he can play black against a super-GM, without any particular opening preparations, and expect to outplay his opponent in the end game and win just like that? |
|
| Jul-30-12 | | Klopstix: What an endgame... I almost feel sorry for Hao, almost. Kd8 was an amazing move by MC. And who cares about who is world champion? With the current system it's a deflated title, and everyone knows who the real Champ is. |
|
| Jul-30-12 | | Bobby Fiske: Interesting post game analyzes by Magnus on YouTube: "Not a great game" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4wT... |
|
| Jul-30-12 | | kappertjes: Carlsen was almost apologetic about the win. He called it 'lucky' and when the (annoying!) interviewer said it was a great game he simply said "not a great game...". I think he felt that he was lucky to have Hao miss the 44. ...Nb6 shot and that the game should have been a draw. Just shows the level at which these GMs operate since I would never consider that 'obvious'. Link to interview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=P... |
|
| Jul-30-12 | | TheFocus: An hour after playing Chinese Checkers, I feel hungry again. |
|
| Jul-30-12 | | twinlark: <Who does Magnus Carlsen think he is? -Does he really think he can play black against a super-GM, without any particular opening preparations, and expect to outplay his opponent in the end game and win just like that?> Amen to that brother. The Great One Rules. |
|
| Jul-30-12 | | Bobby Fiske: Rope-a-dope
If this game ever makes it to a Sunday puzzle (“Black to move after 46. Ndb2”) it could be coined <Rope-a-dope>, the way Magnus was laying low until Wang tired out and lost his accuracy. |
|
| Jul-30-12 | | Eyal: <Carlsen was almost apologetic about the win. He called it 'lucky' and when the (annoying!) interviewer said it was a great game he simply said "not a great game...". I think he felt that he was lucky to have Hao miss the 44. ...Nb6 shot and that the game should have been a draw.> Well, starting from about 20...Nd6 (which Carlsen criticizes, saying he mistakenly thought it could be followed by b5), and certainly from Hao's positional pawn sac (which Carlsen praises), he felt that he misplayed the position and was fighting to draw up to move 46 (where he thinks he should indeed be able to draw after 46.b6 a3 47.Nc1 Kf8 48.b7 Ke7 49.Nxa3 Kd6! [not 49...Kd8 50.Nb5!; from d6 the king can go to c6]). So even though he played the final phase after Hao's blunder very well, it's natural that he doesn't view the game as a <whole> as "great". Though one could say that the earlier phase also shows some good defensive play by Carlsen after the initial mistake(s). |
|
Jul-30-12
| | perfidious: < Eyal: ...And Carlsen's 13...Nc5 is indeed a novelty in relation to Dorfman vs Tkachiev simply by virtue of making a move.> Then again, Dorfman doesn't exert himself overmuch in many games nowadays. If you want to call them games. Last year's French championship was an object example which you may remember, with the Andersson-like score of -1 =10, only four games lasting 20 moves or more. |
|
| Jul-30-12 | | Eyal: <[Carlsen] thinks he should indeed be able to draw after 46.b6 a3 47.Nc1 Kf8 48.b7 Ke7 49.Nxa3 Kd6! (not 49...Kd8 50.Nb5!; from d6 the king can go to c6)> White can try in this line the intermediate 49.e5, which takes away the d6 square from the black king, but in turn it helps Black to activate the knight - 49...Nd5 50.Nxa3 Kd8 51.Nb5 Nb4/e7 next coming to c6 and it definitely looks like a draw, e.g. 52.Nd6 Nc6 (52...f6 53.exf6 gxf6 54.Nf7+ & 55.Nxh6) 53.Nxf7+ Kc7. Btw, there's a nice tactical idea if White plays 57.Kxe4 (instead of Nxg4): 57...a3 58.Nc6+ Kd7 59.Na5 and it looks like the knight is in time to reach b3 and stop the black pawn: 
click for larger viewHowever, Black plays <59.c4!!> taking away the b3 square from the knight; and if the c-pawn is taken the a-pawn queens, of course. Another winning line goes 58.b6 a2 59.b7 Kc7 60.Nd7 Kxb7 61.Nxc5+ Kb6 62.Nb3 h5 and White won't be able to handle Black's passers on both wings. |
|
Jul-31-12
 | | tamar: In the post game interview, Magnus said 49...f5 was to gain squares for his Knight and King. But I have been unable to break a fortress draw Houdini suggests by putting a knight on c3 and King on a3 for White after 51 Kd2 Nf6 52 Kc2 Nfd5 53 Nxb6 Nxb6 54 Nd1 (key move-from c3 knight takes away d5 and guards b5) 54...Ke8
55 Nc3 Kd8 56 Kb2 Kc8 57 Ka3
click for larger viewThe point is White does not even intend to take on a4, but plays Ka2 Ka3 and Black cannot do anything. |
|
| Jul-31-12 | | Bobby Fiske: <<tamar:> The point is White does not even intend to take on a4, but plays Ka2 Ka3 and Black cannot do anything.> No possibility of invading through the kingside either? (-Pawns supported by king). |
|
Jul-31-12
| | tamar: <Bobby Fiske> No I don't think so. From the diagram position, White has the option of taking on a4 if the King strays from the vicinity. For example continuing with the analysis if 57...Kb7 58 h3 is possible, as well as toggling between a3 and a2 with the King. Since the King cannot go through the middle, it would have to go to the g file, after which the b pawn could become dangerous. |
|
| Aug-01-12 | | QueentakesKing: Mr. Wang why did you not eat the a5 pawn on move 43? It could have equalized the position. Next time do not overestimate your calculating ability specially against the number one player like Magnus. |
|
| Aug-18-15 | | whiteshark: White loses his sense of danger and misses a strong tactical blow! A logical outcome of the game could be something like <46.b6 a3 47.Nc1> (47.Nxa3 Nxb6 48.Nxc5=) <47...Kf8 48.b7 Ke7 49.e5 Nd5 50.Nxa3 Nb4 51.Nb5 Nc6 52.f4 Kd8 53.Kf3 Nd4+ 54.Nxd4 cxd4 55.Ke4 Kc7 56.Kxd4 Kxb7=> - Michal Krasenkow |
|
 |
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 11 OF 11 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
Annotations by 