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Sep-02-13
 | | OhioChessFan:  Playing, playing, playing......anything wrong with 34...Rb5 35.g3 Ke6 36.h4 g6 37.Ra1 f6 38.Rd1 f5 39.exf5+ gxf5 40.Rd8 e4 <41. Ra8?> eg 41...e3 42. Kd3 Rxb3 43. Rxa5
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Sep-02-13
| | OhioChessFan: Too tired to look at that any more...e2, Ra1......anything else, Rc5.....as <cormier> says "night, night" |
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Sep-02-13
| | OhioChessFan: While I'm at it, are we sure of 35..Ke6? |
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| Sep-03-13 | | hoodrobin: The <Lemon Team> is squeezing the most from the least! |
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| Sep-03-13 | | morfishine: <OhioChessFan> I'm not sure of anything against these guys; While 35...Ke6 is not obligatory/forced, it could signify their intention to play f5 Looking at Black defenses:
One possibility for Black that needs to be dissected is 34.Ra2 Rb5
35.h4 Ke6 36.c4 Rc5 37.Kc3 g6 38.Rd2 <38...Rc8> If now 39.Rd5 Ra8
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Black has removed his rook from the passive square c5, protects his back rank (freeing his King from that task), and threatens 40...a4; The trade off is White has improved his position; At first look <40.Kb2> looks simple and solid after 40...a4 41.b4 a3+ 42.Ka2 ***** |
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| Sep-03-13 | | blue wave:  <34.Ra2 Rb5 35.c4 Rc5 36.Kc3 g6 37. b4 axb4+ 38. Kxb4 Rc8 39. Ra5 Rb8+ 40. Kc3 f6 41. Rd5 Rb1>Maybe white might try to block the check with <40.Rb5 Rxb5 41.Kxb5 (or 41.pxb5)> If blacks rook moves away to say <40.Rb5 Ra8 41.Rxe5+> Is this correct thinking? |
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Sep-03-13
| | OhioChessFan: I am tossing out ideas. I am sure you are looking for corrections too. I for sure don't want to jump into an endgame and blow all the hard work everyone else has done when I didn't work on it before. And there's always a little doubt that you're missing one move that can ruin the game. |
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| Sep-03-13 | | morfishine: <OhioChessFan><I for sure don't want to jump into an endgame and blow all the hard work everyone else has done when I didn't work on it before. And there's always a little doubt that you're missing one move that can ruin the game> All ideas, good or flawed, need to be looked at so no "stone is left unturned" as <AylerKupp> has emphasized. I think its safe to say, at the least, the majority of our analysts from top-to-bottom, will be weighing-in heavily as the game continues; especially during the critical moves. All for one & one for all ***** |
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Sep-03-13
| | OhioChessFan: Maybe 41. Ra8 doesn't work.
34...Rb5 35.g3 Ke6 36.h4 g6 37.Ra1 f6 38.Rd1 f5 39.exf5+ gxf5 40.Rd8 e4 41. Ra8 Rd5 42. c4 Rd3 43. Rxa5 Rxg3 and the e Pawn is too advanced. 
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Sep-03-13
| | OhioChessFan: Maybe <43. Re8+> in the above line? |
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| Sep-03-13 | | cro777: <All ideas, good or flawed, need to be looked at so no "stone is left unturned" as <AylerKupp> has emphasized.> The analysis of the largest possible number of variations is crucial to understanding the endgame. This process is known as Endgame Mining (see Chess Encyclopedic Dictionary). |
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| Sep-03-13 | | stunningmove: <bluewave> I don't have a chess set at work but just looking at the position and playing it out in my mind, Rxb5+ followed by f5 should easily draw as the white King can't both prevent our pawn from promoting and protect his passer, it's one or the other. I would anticipate Queening one move apart with a swift draw. I will check it out and let you know if I see something different once I get home. By the way, that is why we need to play g6 and prepare f5 as soon as possible. One tempo can make a difference. |
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| Sep-03-13 | | morfishine: <OhioChessFan> In your latest line, I looked at 41.Rh8 instead of 41.Ra8; White gets side checks and the h-pawn is kaput. For example, 41.Rh8 e3 42.c4 Rb7 43.Rxh5 Ke5 44.g4 Rf7 45.Kd3 or 41.Rh8 Ke5 42.Rxh5 e3 43.c4 Rb8 44.Kd3
or 41.Rh8 Re5 42.Rxh5 e3 43.Kd1 Kd5 44.Ke2
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Sep-03-13
| | OhioChessFan: < 41.Rh8 e3 42.c4 Rb7 43.Rxh5 Ke5 44.g4 Rf7 45.Kd3> 43..Rd7
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Sep-03-13
| | OhioChessFan: I have the Black King on the wrong square in my last diagram, but the point is Rd7 keeps our King from stopping the e Pawn. That in general is why I wanted to take the a Pawn. The Rook has a clear path back to the first rank to stop the passer. |
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| Sep-03-13 | | morfishine: <OhioChessFan> Two can play that game. In earlier variations, Black can stop our b-pawn with checks from behind; so can we: 43...Rd7 44.Rh6+ Ke5 45.Rh8 Rd2+ 46.Kc1 f4 47.gxf4+ Kxf4 48.Rf8+ Ke4 49.Re8+ Kf3 50.h5 Rh2 51.Re5 Rh1+ 52.Kc2 e2 53.Kd2 ***** |
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Sep-03-13
| | OhioChessFan: Sneaking a few seconds at work. 43...Rd7 44. Rh8 may be okay, intending to skewer the King on either the Pawn or the Rook. Sorry, 30 seconds is up. |
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| Sep-03-13 | | stunningmove: After Rb5 we may see a draw offer from white. It is possible they've been waiting to see if we blunder with Ra8 before offering the draw. If not my thoughts are either we are missing a tactic or they aren't playing the lines to completion. |
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| Sep-03-13 | | galumph: My cat would know better than to play Ra8, so surely they can't imagine we would be that foolish. I think kwid was right when he said that now that they have rejected our draw offer, we neither offer agin nor accept one offered by them - we play it out to demonstrate their pettiness. |
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Sep-03-13
| | OhioChessFan: <34...Rb5 35.g3 Ke6 36.h4 g6 37.Ra1 f6 38.Rd1 f5 39.exf5+ gxf5 40.Rd8 e4 41.Rh8 e3 42.c4 Rb7 43.Rxh5 Rd7 44.Rh6+ Ke5 45.Rh8 Rd2+ 46.Kc1 f4 47.gxf4+ Kxf4 48.Rf8+ Ke4 49.Re8+ Kf3 50.h5 Rh2 51.Re5 Rh1+ 52.Kc2 e2 53.Kd2> Had a few minutes at lunch, some options to look at, I haven't looked at any yet, just caught my attention: For White:
46. Kc3
47. Re8+
For Black
45...Ke4
46...Ke4
48...Kg4
48...Kg3
52...Rh2
52...Kf4 |
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| Sep-03-13 | | YouRang: I'm thinking that 33...h5 might have thwarted white's plans. For some reason, that original line that we had in the sticky (where we delayed ...h5) seemed to be more trappy for black. I wouldn't be surprised if the folks on team white are at least debating whether or not to offer a draw. Then again, maybe they have something else in mind besides the c4/Kc3 etc setup we've been looking at. Is there any merit to other moves, like Kb2 or Ra1 for white? |
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| Sep-03-13 | | YouRang: <galumph: My cat would know better than to play Ra8, so surely they can't imagine we would be that foolish. I think kwid was right when he said that now that they have rejected our draw offer, we neither offer agin nor accept one offered by them - we play it out to demonstrate their pettiness.> IMO, it's not petty to ask your opponent to demonstrate their ability to force the draw. There were some reasonable looking lines black might have played and gotten into trouble. Anyway, if white were to offer a draw, I'd happily accept. Continuing to play on out of spite doesn't seem like good sportsmanship to me. |
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| Sep-03-13 | | stunningmove: It may as simple as them not playing lines to completion (many times 20 moves). Positions may look favorable after only 5 moves or so, but once played to completion the draw is obvious. Or again, as <YouRang> states, they may have a tactic we haven't seen yet. |
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| Sep-03-13 | | galumph: <YouRang> Perhaps I chose too strong a word. "Disrespect" may have been more appropriate. However, refusing a subsequent draw offer doesn't seem spiteful to me under these circumstances. How would our refusal to accept a draw offer be any more spiteful that theirs? |
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| Sep-03-13 | | blue wave: I wonder if they might play 35.h3 to prepare 36.g4?
I haven't really looked at it much. |
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