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Team White vs Team Black
"Slaughterhouse d5" (game of the day Sep-13-2013)
Battle of the Brains (2013), chessgames.com, rd 4, Apr-24
Sicilian Defense: Lasker-Pelikan. Sveshnikov Variation Chelyabinsk Variation (B33)  ·  1/2-1/2

ANALYSIS [x]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 23 OF 182 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Apr-30-13  crawfb5: team white <Check It Out: I'm considering a last minute switch to 3.Bb5, which would tie the vote. Anyone want to weigh in?>

Then we could blame the move choice on the CG randomizer. Nothing like having a good scapegoat handy...

Apr-30-13  hms123: team white <CIO>

Go for it.

Apr-30-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  kutztown46: team white Switch, switch, switch...
Apr-30-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: team white <ajile> The problem is that 3.b3 works better against 2...d6 than against 2...Nc6. OE shows that after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.b3 that White has a 37% winning chance based on 27 games. But after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.b3 White only has a 30% winning chance based on 60 games.
Apr-30-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: team white <capafan> Us giving you a hard time for taking the road less traveled? Naaah, that would never happen.
Apr-30-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: team white <Check It Out> To be fair and introduce even more randomness you should flip a coin to determine whether you should switch your vote.

Better yet, take up a collection. You might as well profit from your efforts. ;-)

Apr-30-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  Chessgames Challenge: team white
3.d4

FINAL VOTE TALLY:

3.d4     15votes (48.4%)
3.Bb5     13votes (41.9%)

total # of votes: 31


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Apr-30-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  Chessgames Challenge: team black
3.d4


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Apr-30-13  capafan: team white 3. d4 it is. It may not be the road less traveled, but we will make it the best road nonetheless. :)

Assignments anyone?

Apr-30-13  Hesam7: team black Our opening options after 3...cd4 4 Nd4


click for larger view

(A) 4...Nf6 5 Nc3

(A1) 5...e5 (Sveshnikov)
(A2) 5...d6 (Classical)
(A3) 5...e6 (Taimanov)

(B) 4...e5 (Kalashnikov)

(C) 4...e6 (aiming for Scheveningen)

I vote for (C), it is closest to Najdorf, we don't wreck our pawn structure and in most lines we don't create a weakness in d5, so here is a little more opening analysis:

(C1) <5 Nb5 d6>, see Karpov vs Kasparov, 1985. I know Black's gambit was busted later with 12 Be3 Be3 13 Qa4 but Black is not forced to sac the pawn with 8...d5?, instead 8...b6! promises us great play.

(C2) <5 Nc3 d6> now White's sharpest try (and the only move that avoids the Scheveningen set up) is <6 g4> but after <6...Nge7> Black is doing really well, see: Shirov vs Judit Polgar, 1994.

If anyone has any questions/doubts ask/express them, I will try to answer as best as I can.

Apr-30-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  Ron: team black Sicilian Defence, Scheveningen Variation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicili...

May-01-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: team white <Initial AT spreadsheet (ATSS), Apr-30-13>

The initial ATSS is ready for downloading from the following RapidShare link. This download link is also posted in the Sticky. It is my plan and my hope to update and post the ATSS following each move by White and Black.

http://rapidshare.com/files/3713078...

This version of the ATSS contains all the posted analyses through Apr-30-13, 5:00 PM PDT, just after White's 3rd move (3.d4) was posted. It contains 3 applicable analyses for Black’s next move, 1 with an evaluation. The still applicable analyses are listed in move tab 'B03' and the no longer applicable analyses involving 3.Bb5 are listed in move tab 'W03'. As a move is made by each side the still applicable analyses will be moved to the move tab corresponding to the next move, and those analyses that are no longer applicable will be "left behind". For now, while the ATSS is small, I'll keep these tabs. But as the game goes on the ATSS will become quite large, so I’ll start deleting these no-longer-applicable move tabs.

A reminder that, in order for the analyses recorded in the ATSS to be really useful, you should include your assessment of the position at the end of the analysis. It may be obvious to you but it may not be obvious to someone else, or they may have a different opinion and assume that their opinion matches yours. Both will likely result in desirable discussions not happening.

Of course, Black's next move will likely be 3...cxd4 and this is the only response we have considered. Since there is only one posted analysis with an evaluation, the statistics are not meaningful. Some of you may say that the statistics are not meaningful anyway, but that's a different issue. :-)

Then the likely game continuation will be 4.Nxd4 and we'll just have to wait and see what variation Team Black decides to play.

May-01-13  Pedro Fernandez: team white <
capafan: 3. d4 it is. It may not be the road less traveled, but we will make it the best road nonetheless. :) Assignments anyone?>

Dear <capa>, that was a lovable reaction. Honestly I did not expect less from you, and also from all of our fellows who did vote 3.Bb5. What a close election! Now our Team White will begin to working out. Well <capa>, next I think we're expecting 3...cxd4 4.Nxd4. After this Team Black will decide the scheme to follow.
May-01-13  Pedro Fernandez: team white Dear <Ayler>, I went to rapidshare and there appears the following banner (in red): "The download for this file has not been enabled. Only the user who uploaded it, can enable the download option." Some suggestion? THX!
May-01-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: team white <Initial Supplementary Games spreadsheet (SGSS), Apr-30-13>

The initial SGSS is also ready for downloading from the following RapidShare link. This download link is also posted in the Sticky. It is my plan and my hope to update and post the SGSS following each move by White and Black, assuming that new games have been posted.

http://rapidshare.com/files/1289393...

This version of the SGSS contains all the posted games through Apr-30-13, 5:00 PM PDT, just after White's 3rd move (3.d4) was posted. It contains just 1 applicable game for Black’s next move, all other posted games (5) involved 2...d6, 2...e6, or 3.Bb5. These have been moved to the 'Other Games' tab. As additional games are posted, those that will no longer be applicable because they deviate from the current game will also be moved to the 'Other Games' tab.

So, as our game progresses, if you have any games that you consider noteworthy, preferably master level correspondence games, please post them in the main page in PGN format or provide a link to them.

May-01-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: team white <Pedro Fernandez> It looks like the RapidShare goblins are at it again. Once my wife finishes using her computer I will try to download the file from there and see if I have any problems.
May-01-13  WinKing: team white <AylerKupp> I am unable to open the rapidshare account you have shown. I get the message below:

<'The download for this file has not been enabled. Only the user who uploaded it, can enable the download option.'>

May-01-13  WinKing: team white Sorry <AK> I see <Pedro Fernandez> has already let you know about the problem.
May-01-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: team white <Pedro Fernandez> Problem fixed. It was my mistake – maybe. Each time you create a folder, RapidShare requires you to specify its privileges; whether others can see the folder's contents, download files from the folder, or upload files to the folder. I had just created two subfolders, one each for the ATSS and SGSS, and I forgot to specify their privileges.

I also compressed the ATSS in *.zip format since RapidShare recently decided (within the last few days) to slow downloads if you have a free account, in an attempt to get you to upgrade to an account where you pay a monthly fee. So it was taking a long time to download the ATSS, even though it is still small. By compressing the file, it is more than 10X smaller and it downloads much faster.

Here is the link for downloading the compressed ATSS: http://rapidshare.com/files/3187600.... I've also updated the link on the Sticky so that everyone gets the compressed ATSS.

May-01-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: team white <capafan> I would think that after the likely 3...cxd4 4.Nxd4 that the following are Black's most likely moves:

4...g6 and the Accelerated Dragon variation
4...e5 and the Kalashnikov variation
4...e6 and the Taimanov variation
4...Nf6 and the Four Knights variation
4...d6 and a transposition into the Scheveningen variation

Some of these will lead to transpositions into other variations such as 4...Nf6 5.Nc3 e5 and the Sveshnikov variation. The Sicilian is a much played and much analyzed opening and transpositions are likely. And there are many very subtle move orderings that allow either side to get an advantage. So research and being prepared is important!

One suggestion is for different people to see if they find some recent pertinent games, preferably master level correspondence games, and post them so that I can include them in the SGSS. Similarly, analyses of these variations, typically the main lines from opening books would be helpful.

As far as assignments we have two basic ways to go:

(1) Various people volunteer to analyze and/or find applicable games for specific variations, and provide their forums for this purpose (the so-called "Forum System"). This could lead to a duplication of effort so if we see that one of the more likely variations to be played is missing some coverage, then some of us should volunteer to fill the gaps. I'll start by volunteering to post some analysis on the Accelerated Dragon from de la Villa's book, "Dismantling the Sicilian". I find it interesting that he considers the Accelerated Dragon sounder than the Classical Dragon, and thinks that it offers "excellent prospects to play for a win as Black".

(2) Various people volunteer to analyze and/or find applicable games and also make their forums available but wait until they are asked to do so by a coordinator. This, of course, requires one person willing to volunteer to act as a coordinator by identifying the most likely variations to be played and then making assignments. This is probably more efficient from the perspective of reducing duplication of effort but the effort required of the coordinator is not trivial.

I am OK with either method but I don't think that I can volunteer as a coordinator and still have time to maintain the ATSS and SGSS. And I hesitate to also volunteer my forum and commit to providing a certain amount of analysis or finding some games until I see how much time the ATSS and SGSS maintenance require.

So, if there are any volunteers out there or if anyone has other suggestions, please speak up!

May-01-13  WinKing: team white Your rapidshare file can be downloaded now <AK>.
May-01-13  crawfb5: team white <AylerKupp> I should point out there is no way for any of us to hide contents of our individual fora from members of Team Black as team members can hide the contents from GMs in World vs. GM games. So, <all> analysis needs to happen here and not in individual fora.
May-01-13  crawfb5: team white <after the likely 3...cxd4 4.Nxd4 that the following are Black's most likely moves:

4...g6 and the Accelerated Dragon variation
4...e5 and the Kalashnikov variation
4...e6 and the Taimanov variation
4...Nf6 and the Four Knights variation
4...d6 and a transposition into the Scheveningen variation>

I think we can expect 4...Nf6 and then after 5. Nc3 we get about the same group of possible responses. Given a limited knowledge of some team members and some sense of the dynamics of opening move voting, I'd predict, in order of probability:

5...d6 at which point we can consider trying to rehabilitate the Sozin, which has not been scoring all that well or fling down the gauntlet with some version of a Richter-Rauzer.

5...e6 this would probably transpose into some version of the game after 5...d6.

5...g6 I'm sure they have some Dragon fans, but I'm not so sure they will be able to convince the rest of the team to go that route.

5...e5 this is the most popular move in GM and ICCF play, but I think the ugly-looking hole on d5 and the sharp character of the position will keep it from being a consensus-builder. We'll see.

May-01-13  crawfb5: team white <AK: I just tried to bring my ICCF games database up to date (through Mar-2013) but ICCF has made it a little more difficult. It used to be that you could download the games by year but now you apparently have to navigate a maze to try to find the games. And it looks like you have to individually search for and select each tournament before you can download the games. What a pain!>

I figured out what ICCF did with their games archives. They still have them, but now you have to be registered with ICCF to download them. I just did so and now have the server games through March 2013. I will set up a new database this week so I can find recent correspondence games.

May-01-13  Pedro Fernandez: team white Note to <AylerKupp>: Okay I downloaded the zip file "ATSS_BOB4_20130430" which once unzipped it is a .xls file (Windows Shell Common file). I'm using ARENA as GUI platform, but I don't know whether I can read the text or not. Thanks for helping!
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