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| Aug-30-13 | | Hesam7: <csmath: 34. ...Ng4?!
[Kramnik commented that this move surprised him as strange. His intuition seems to be right though it seems black is already in a difficult position.] At this point the game might have already been lost! This is truly amazing as it is hard to show any exact move where black made any error.> For what is worth the engines prefer 33...Nd6 to 33...Ne5 but I don't know if that changes anything. Also right now only the first minute of Kramnik's post game comments are available on the webpage which is pretty disappointing. |
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| Aug-30-13 | | WiseWizard: Im glad Kramnik won the first game so I can see him play for a draw with black, I love seeing him methodically eliminate all of whites play and control the position. |
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| Aug-30-13 | | WiseWizard: Kramnik was smart not to go into the 8. BxN variation of the Tartakower, I was going over Andreikin's games and he prefers playing in those type of static positions where he can control the pawn structures most of his wins on the black side came from those types of positions. It's evident in this game since he fell apart after the position opened up. |
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| Aug-31-13 | | hellopolgar: Man Vladimir Kramnik is so good. Vladimir "Vino" Kramnik. |
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| Aug-31-13 | | hemsley: Kramnick ,he plays like a computer engine |
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| Aug-31-13 | | scholes: Just for fun and statistical curiosity i organised a tournament of 10 one minute games between Houdini 1.5 a and Rybka 3, with each game starting from 30th move of this game. Both engines played white side of the position from move 30 5 times. Unsurprisingly Houdini won the tournament with 3 wins to 0 losses. However surprisingly it scored all of its wins from black side of the position. I had thought that engine with white position would win all of its game. But position is not as completely won. It is just a testimony to Kramnik technique and engine's poor understanding of positional dynamics. |
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| Aug-31-13 | | fgh: <scholes>: 1 minutes games are too superficial to mean anything. |
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| Aug-31-13 | | Hesam7: <scholes: Just for fun and statistical curiosity i organised a tournament of 10 one minute games between Houdini 1.5 a and Rybka 3, with each game starting from 30th move of this game. Both engines played white side of the position from move 30 5 times. Unsurprisingly Houdini won the tournament with 3 wins to 0 losses. However surprisingly it scored all of its wins from black side of the position.> A few points:
1. One minute games are too short, try five minutes games. 2. Also use a stronger engine than Rybka 3, I suggest the recently released Stockfish 4 (free) or Critter 1.6a (also free). 3. Why the 30th move? The 32nd or the 33rd move would be better starting place. |
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| Aug-31-13 | | Hesam7: <hemsley: Kramnick ,he plays like a computer engine> Here quite the opposite happened actually. |
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| Aug-31-13 | | csmath: <<hemsley: Kramnick ,he plays like a computer engine>
Here quite the opposite happened actually.> Actually he did play somewhat like a chess engine here. His evaluations were also similar as he thought he got small advantage in the opening. His a-b-c setup of heavy pieces after 21 moves was different than what engine would have done [Houdini] but the continuation was pretty much in the mold. 28. d5 break was exactly what engine had.
The sacrifice of queen the same [I was myself thinking only about 30. Qf1 which is worse according to Houdini] in agreement with engine. Succession of moves after passer has been created was more or less what engine would have done (perhaps in different move order]. He also wanted to exchange knight [he said so] just like engine "wanted" [opposite to my own feel]. 41. c7 was engine move as well although in this position that was probably more or less expected but I am certain there would be plenty of GMs that would hesitate here asking a question whether that would really be won ending. Kramnik was convinced it would [this is probably the only place I thought the same]. 43. Re1 is pretty much the same idea as Houdini's Re7. I think 46.f4 was also the first choice of Houdini [at depth of 26} which was a move I considered somewhat commital though it became clear to me that it was the best move after it was played. The rest is pretty much in nuances.
Thus yes, I think Kramnik played with high incidence similar to Houdini. |
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| Aug-31-13 | | csmath: Another thing:
If I recall well Kramnik had a comment about pawn structure after 46. f4 where he saw some possibility of draw. I think this is assuming 48. ...fxg5
[Andreikin played Kxg5]
I think this was precisely the fear until you realize that black will be losing his pawns anyway. It does take a bit of calculation for that. By the way, this game is a positional masterpiece. I think this is one of the best positional games I have ever analyzed/seen in my career.
The ability to play in this fashion is truly a mark of a champion. There is absolutely nothing exciting in this game yet that game develops in its consistent fashion into a victory. I myself had long doubts about Andreikin and his ability to play on high level since in his losses he seems always unable to follow high quality positional play. I am going to excuse him here since in this game I do not think anybody else would be able to follow except maybe Anand in his superb form. |
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| Aug-31-13 | | MarkFinan: Its crazy how Stockfish picks out the same moves, top top top level chess is becoming more computer like that by 2020 most games, a good heavy percentage anyway, will be drawn.
I wander if Kramnik had his phone turned off ;) |
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| Aug-31-13 | | pericles of athens: <haydn20: Apparently 51...Qb4 is incorrect> Right - this is the losing move of the game for black (gets a +1.6 from Fritz), though 51...Qc3 or 51...Qe5 still leave Black with many difficulties. I play the Tartakower as black, glad to see it played here! Andreikin played it nicely, but the 51st move loses to a player with the strength of Kramnik. |
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| Aug-31-13 | | csmath: The game is already lost long before that move, it makes no difference. |
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| Aug-31-13 | | MarkFinan: csmath.. I think a draw was possible? |
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| Aug-31-13 | | MarkFinan: Just as i pressed kibitz i realised he said move 51, and I was thinking about 41.c7.
Quite happy my memory aint *that* bad because ive only been through the game once. |
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| Aug-31-13 | | visayanbraindoctor: My first impression is that Kramnik in this game played like the Capablanca of 1918-1924, the Fischer of 1969-1972... and the Kramnik of 2000 that took the Title from the great Kasparov without losing a single game. Computer-like perfection.. Andreikin as far as I can tell played reasonable and strong moves, yet still lost. The best played game of the World Cup, and perhaps the whole year. If Kramnik or any other chess player were to play at this level of perfection regularly, he would surely sooner or later be World Champion. |
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| Aug-31-13 | | MarkFinan: Visayanbraindoctor.. Yes, its 2900+ chess! :-) |
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| Sep-01-13 | | WiseWizard: I say Andreikin played the early middle game weakly and was punished. He had no concrete plan based on positional elements. He didnt move a Rook until move 23 only to move it back to its original square 3 moves later. White created a strong pawn center, coordinated his pieces and weakened Black's queenside all while Black wasted his time with that pointless knight maneuver. Because all of White's pieces controlled the center he was able to trade his Queen for Rook, Bishop, pawn and the initiative forcing black to defend and eliminating any chances for his victory. Chess is about plans and piece coordination/mobility, this is a model game to support that. The laws of chess cannot be disobeyed. I don't want to call Andreikin a fish but a couple more games like this and ill have no choice. Kramnik played like a god here. |
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| Sep-01-13 | | WiseWizard: Anand is criminally underrated on this site, although the culprits just show their own ignorance. Besides Carlsen the rest of these young players are weak strategically, a direct cause of their being submissive engine followers. |
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| Sep-01-13 | | Ulhumbrus: An alternative to 25...Bc6 is 25...Qb6 |
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| Sep-02-13 | | fgh: <Besides Carlsen the rest of these young players are weak strategically, a direct cause of their being submissive engine followers.> Could you please learn something about chess? Thanks. |
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Sep-02-13
 | | perfidious: <fgh>: If only-then he might come close to fulfilling at least the 'Wise' part of his handle. Not holding my breath waiting, though, as another dogmatist in the mould of <Ulhumbrus> holds forth on how these top players cannot play. |
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| Sep-02-13 | | AgentRgent: Just two days after watching this game, I had the opportunity to trade my queen for two rooks and later enter an KRRPPP vs KQPPP endgame in one of my own games. Because of the lessons I learned from this game and Nigel's commentary I knew exactly how to proceed and won. Clearly watching it was several hours well spent! :) |
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| Jan-15-15 | | jrofrano: jrofrano: This game was the number two game of 2013: http://lifezugzwang.com/10-games-fr... |
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