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| Dec-08-06 | | thegoodanarchist: Obviously Fischer was better thank Karpov or Kasparov. |
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| Dec-08-06 | | stanleys: <thegoodanarchist>: <Obviously Fischer was better thank Karpov or Kasparov.> Really????What makes you so sure?
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| Dec-08-06 | | square dance: well, you can say its winning all you want, but rybka clearly feels that black has compensation. maybe its wrong, or the compensation is only temporary, but when you're "up" and exchange yet the programs are showing only .30 in your favor then they feel there is comp for the exchange. i guess the only hesitation i would have here is that fritz is known to be stronger when it comes to king side attacks. i'll check some lines with fritz 10 and see what i can come up with. <The point is that Black is the one who should show compensation for the exchange he has sacrificed.> i dont know what you mean by this since rybka feels he has it especially after Nxh7. 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nf3 O-O 6. Be2 e5 7. Be3 Qe7 8. dxe5 dxe5 9. Nd5 Qd8 10. Bc5 Nxe4 11. Be7 Qd7 12. Bxf8 Kxf8 13. Qc2 13. Qd3 Nd6 14. Ng5 Qd8 15. Nxh7+ Kg8 16. Ng5 Bf5 17. Qd2 Nc6 
click for larger viewAnalysis by Rybka 2.2 32-bit:
1. = (0.24): 18.h2-h4 Nc6-d4 19.Nd5-e3 Bg7-h6 20.Ra1-d1 c7-c5 21.Ne3xf5 Nd6xf5 22.Ke1-f1 Ra8-b8 23.Qd2-d3 Bh6xg5 24.h4xg5 Qd8xg5 2. = (0.18): 18.Ra1-d1 Nc6-d4 19.h2-h4 Bf5-c2 20.Rd1-c1 Nd6-e4 21.Ng5xe4 Bc2xe4 22.Ke1-f1 c7-c6 23.Nd5-c3 Nd4xe2 24.Qd2xd8+ Ra8xd8 3. = (0.15): 18.0-0-0 Nc6-d4 19.h2-h4 Bf5-c2 20.Rd1-e1 Bc2-b3 21.Kc1-b1 Nd6xc4 22.Be2xc4 Bb3xc4 23.Nd5-e3 Bc4-b5 24.Ng5-e4 Bb5-c6 @ 18 ply
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| Dec-08-06 | | square dance: this is what fritz is giving at 18 ply:
New game - Rybka 2.2 32-bit
click for larger viewAnalysis by Fritz 10:
1. ± (0.88): 18.h2-h4 Nc6-d4 19.Nd5-e3 Bg7-h6 20.0-0-0 Bh6xg5 21.h4xg5 Qd8xg5 22.Be2-d3 Ra8-d8 23.Kc1-b1 Nd4-c6 24.Qd2-e2 Nc6-d4 25.Qe2-e1 2.  (0.26): 18.0-0 Nc6-d4 19.Ng5-f3 Nd4xf3+ 20.Be2xf3 Nd6xc4 21.Qd2-b4 Nc4-d6 22.Bf3-e2 e5-e4 23.Ra1-c1 c7-c6 24.Nd5-e3 Qd8-f6 25.Ne3xf5 3. = (0.23): 18.0-0-0 Nc6-d4 19.h2-h4 Bf5-c2 20.Rd1-e1 Bc2-b3 21.Kc1-b1 Nd6xc4 22.Be2xc4 Bb3xc4 23.Nd5-e3 Bc4-b5 24.Qd2-c3 c7-c6 25.Kb1-a1 in the first line if you play through it fritz likes 19...c5 better with 20. Nxf5 gxf5 to follow. at this point only 21. 0-0-0 maintains any advantage according to F10. at a depth of 16 this is what fritz 10 gives:
New game - Rybka 2.2 32-bit
click for larger viewAnalysis by Fritz 10:
1. (0.54): 21.0-0-0 Qd8-b6 22.Rh1-e1 Bg7-h6 23.Kc1-b1 f7-f6 24.f2-f4 f6xg5 25.f4xg5 2. = (0.13): 21.Rh1-g1 f7-f6 22.Ng5-f3 Nd6-e4 23.Qd2-c1 Kg8-h7 24.g2-g4 Qd8-a5+ 25.Ke1-f1 Nd4xf3 26.Be2xf3 Ne4-d2+ 3. = (0.06): 21.g2-g4 f7-f6 22.Ng5-f3 Nd6-e4 23.Qd2-d1 Qd8-a5+ 24.Ke1-f1 Ra8-d8 25.Qd1-e1 Qa5xe1+ 26.Ra1xe1 f5xg4 27.Nf3xd4 Ne4-d2+ strangely enough, rybka doesnt consider 21. 0-0-0 in its top 3 moves. instead it prefers Rh3, Rd1 and Kf1. they all have an eval of about .35. |
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| Dec-08-06 | | slomarko: in other words the line Garry played was very playable |
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| Dec-08-06 | | alicefujimori: First of all, I would like to point out that the first to suggest 13.Qd3! was NOT Fischer, but by the Kasparov team during the 1990 match. In the book on this match "Kasparov V Karpov 1990", by Kasparov, Geller, Lein and Chepizhny, they claimed that 13.Qc2 was a mistake and stated that the only way to cast doubt on Black's idea was to play 13.Qd3! and gave the sample variation 13...Nd6 (best) 14.Qa3 Nc6 (14...c6 15.Nb6) 15.Rd1. |
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| Dec-27-06 | | kevin86: Either this game was a great hoax-or one of the greatest draws in history-after playing the game a second time,i'm leaning toward the latter. White steals the queen then gets his trapped! and that's just a start! |
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| Feb-28-09 | | talisman: 23...K-e7??.. good points in the posts above but this is the move that i don't get. |
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| Apr-17-09 | | WhiteRook48: 23...Bf7 |
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| Jun-30-09 | | Knight13: <talisman: 23...K-e7??.. good points in the posts above but this is the move that i don't get.> Black was just centralizing. And also to cover up any potential checks on the D-file. It was unclear at this point where the light-squared bishop was supposed to be, so it's best to remain at e8 and being able to play Bf6 or g5 or whatever instead of sticking it on f7 and not do much. |
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| Nov-04-10 | | ToTheDeath: In retrospect a very overrated game where neither player played to the best of his abilities. Karpov failed to find the best moves against an original but dubious opening gamble, and Kasparov failed to convert a much better and probably winning endgame. |
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| Nov-27-10 | | talisman: <Knight13> Preciate that! |
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| Feb-07-11 | | TheOutsider: Fischer was right. Completely prearranged. |
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| Jun-09-11 | | Everett: Fischer was <deranged,> completely <right.> |
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| Feb-12-20 | | Howard: So, Karpov had roughly a two-pawn advantage at one point, according to Stockfish. Interesting ! |
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| Oct-19-22 | | Calydon: Kasparov said this game could’ve been a masterpiece but it would have taken energy that he didn’t have. |
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| Jun-01-23 | | Mathematicar: So, Kasparov, as usual, memorized 20 moves of theory, but he in return forgot the basic endgame principles and throw an easly winning endgame. As in "Octopus Game", he memorized the whole variation! Karpov was the better positional player, but Kasparov's preparation, memorization and hard work was just insane. I watched his speech in 2004. He behaved so tensed (not nervous!), with a lot of clenching of fists and teeth. His will to be the best is out of this world! |
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Jun-01-23
 | | beatgiant: <Mathematicar> At which point do you think Black had an easily winning endgame? For example 34...h3 looks like a nice advantage for Black, but an easy win is not at all apparent to me. |
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| Jun-01-23 | | Mathematicar: <beatgiant> Well, the 26th move. 26. Nf7 is not a good move by Garry. The obvious 26... Nd3 controls more space and allows a natural coordination of Black's pieces. White simply wouldn't be able to handle the pressure. |
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Jun-01-23
| | beatgiant: <Mathematicar> That might be an improvement, but I'm still not seeing an easy win. White could make preparations to kick the knight away, for example 26...Nd3 27. g3 c5 28. Be2 and then what? It's hard to evaluate 28...Nb2 with a far-flung knight station. |
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| Jun-02-23 | | Mathematicar: I think 27... c5 is a poor move. Much better is 27... Bd4 with a clear, winning advantage for Black. Maybe Alpha Zero could stand up to Kasparov in this ending, but not a human. Black wins easily, but maybe Kasparov was in his alien mode, which I do not approve of. Cristal clear game and search for truth in chess, as in mathematics, sciences and life should be one of the man's primary aspirations. That's why I consider Capablanca, Fischer and Karpov the greatest. |
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Jun-02-23
| | beatgiant: <Mathematicar> Again 26...Nd3 27. g3 Bd4 28. Be2 and the knight is pushed back. I agree Black has a noticeable positional advantage, but I'm not seeing how <Black wins easily>. Do you think you could post a sample line ending in something more tangible? |
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Jun-02-23
 | | DaltriDiluvi: In this video, Yasser Seirawan spends nearly an hour analyzing the game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzc...
(I'd advice the viewer to watch it at a high playback speed - Yasser is a slow speaker.) |
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| Jun-02-23 | | Mathematicar: <DaltriDiluvi> Thanks. |
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Jun-05-23
| | beatgiant: This was a thought-provoking discussion. Black seems to have a strong advantage on move 26, but after move 38 it's hard to find any convincing winning try. What happened? Black's plan is to advance the kingside pawns to gain space and create a passer, and also advance on the queenside to create another passer there. White's plan is to play every pawn break, aiming to open lines for his rook and also liquidate the pawns and get closer to a drawn pawnless situation. In spite of Black's impressive looking position at the start of the endgame, Black's plan fails and White's succeeds. This speaks to the need for more accurate execution. For example, ...b5, activating the queenside majority, is an important step in Black's plan, but in the game 35...b5 leads to the counterattack 38. Rd5 liquidating the majority. Here I think 37...Kf6 guarding the g-pawn is an improvement, for on 37...Kf6 38. Rd5 <Bd4> is possible. White is not out of the woods yet. That's just one example. I see several other points earlier to improve Black's play, and will post those suggestions in the future. |
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