< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Dec-20-07|| ||UdayanOwen: So it seems then that the 227 points lower rating for Ilivitsky (pre-tournament ratings) might have had something to do with Keres focusing too hard on creating a win and not being cautious about white's own threats.|
|Dec-20-07|| ||johnlspouge: <UdayanOwen> When you preview your kibitz, there is a "Kibitzing Help" link at the bottom.|
Your long posts are very helpful, and most of us could profit from them. Thanks, e.g., for the Alekhine game.
|Dec-20-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: <UdayanOwen: Can anyone tell me how to get the red writing where you paste somebody elses name/comments and respond>|
Enclose the text in <> as above. See Kibitzing Tricks for more stuff.
I recommend NOT to insert chess symbols in the posted lines. Depending on the browser, the result may not be copyable. For example, if I see this:
1. ♘f3 ♘f6
I get this from copy/paste:
1. f3 f6
On the other hand, 1. Nf3 Nf6 can be copied/pasted perfectly.
Firefox is the only browser I tried that does the copy correctly, but I am too used to Safari and its resizable text entry boxes.
|Dec-20-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: <UdayanOwen> The game you posted is on CG, too: Alekhine vs K Junge, 1942 - but if you search for it, the player name must be spelled correctly.|
|Dec-20-07|| ||gilbertblondy: 1.♔h4 ♖g6 2.♖d8+ ♔h7 3.♖aa8 with idea ♖h8#
If 3...♖f6 or 3...♖h6, then 4.g5!
|Dec-20-07|| ||YouRang: Heh, got it pretty easily, for a Thursday.
Rd8+ is crying to be played, but it leaves the question "what next after ...Kh7" unanswered.
But then I noticed black's awkwardly placed rook on g5, and figured I could push it back with 38. Kh4, forcing 38...Rg8 and creating a little mating tunnel (freshly coined term) on the h-file, with the threat of doubling up my rooks (39. Rd8+ Kh7 40. Raa8) on the back rank and playing Rh8#. It appears that black cannot escape mate without giving up is rook.
In fact, my first thought was that after 40. Raa8, black would play 40...Rf6 (giving the rook room to move to f7, but this is met with mate: 40...Rf6 41. Rh8+ Kg6 42. gxh5+ Kf7 43. Ra7 and mate next.)
|Dec-20-07|| ||WannaBe: <rusich: Jesus,getlmen,is everyone a master here?>|
Yes, but not necessarily at chess. =)
|Dec-20-07|| ||jenspetersson: <The Sicilian Dragon: 38. Kh4 was only, all other moves yield the initiative to Black;>|
Could someone comfort me in my view that 38.Rd8+ first and THEN 39.Kh4 is equally good?!
|Dec-20-07|| ||WannaBe: <jenspetersson> No, see my post on page 1.|
|Dec-20-07|| ||kevin86: I missed this one! White combined an attack on the eighth rank with cornering the black rook. In order to save the rook,black had to immobilized his king and vice versa. Both could not be saved.|
|Dec-20-07|| ||evenua: <Could someone comfort me in my view that 38.Rd8+ first and THEN 39.Kh4 is equally good?!> |
As <WannaBe> pointed out, 39.♔h4 is followed by ♔g6. The point of this move is clear: the King flees away and defends the Rook, and now Black threatens ♖xh2 mate. All this with a single move. Now I don't see any advantages for White.
|Dec-20-07|| ||The Sicilian Dragon: 38. Rd8+ is not as efficient, the Rook must first be displaced. Yes you could use 38. Rd8, but the King hides and the threat Rh2+ can slow the down the process. 38. Kh4 is quicker and doesn't allow any time for Black to respond. When one has the initiative, one wants to keep it, unless there is a greater gain in sight. This I believe is the not the case.|
|Dec-20-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: <The Sicilian Dragon: 38. Rd8+ is not as efficient>|
That's an understatement. <38. Rd8+> blows the win to kingdom come and draws after <WannaBe: 38.Rd8+ Kh7 39.Kh4 Kh6>
While 39.... Kg6 also seems to draw, it is more difficult for the black to play after
38. Rd8+ Kh7 39. Kh4 Kg6 40. Rxg7+ Kxg7 41. Kxg5 hxg4 42. Rd7+
click for larger view
|Dec-20-07|| ||DukeAlba: I'm ON FIRE this week. At first I looked at the 38. Rd8+ which was simply calling me to play it but upon further analysis I concluded that the more devious 38. Kh4 was better.|
|Dec-20-07|| ||DukeAlba: Sad to see Keres lose though :( ....|
|Dec-20-07|| ||Eggman: Just looked at the game itself. Gosh, when you see the position after 28...Rxd5 (see below) it's impossible to imagine a World-Championship calibre player like Keres losing it! Of course, he has blundered away more important games.|
click for larger view
|Dec-20-07|| ||UdayanOwen: <gilbertblondy: 1.Kh4 Rg6 2.Rd8+ Kh7 3.Raa8 with idea Rh8#
If 3...Rf6 or 3...Rh6, then 4.g5!>
If 3...Rf6 4.g6 does not win (black just plays 4...Rf7, and if 5.Rh8+ Kg6.
In this line you need to play 3...Rf6 4.Rh8+ Kg6 5.gxh5+ Kf7 6.Ra7+ Rb7 7.Rxb7#
|Dec-20-07|| ||UdayanOwen: Hey nice, I got my funky bracketed coloured writing happening....|
|Dec-20-07|| ||porgue: didnt poor ilvitsy commit suicide by leaping to his death? If i were that good i would'nt|
|Dec-20-07|| ||Shams: <didnt poor ilvitsy commit suicide by leaping to his death? If i were that good i would'nt> Isn't that how Lembut Oll died? That was a real blow for chess fans.|
|Dec-20-07|| ||CaptGeorge: Looks like a K push to h4.
Then closing ranks with h3.
Not sure where to go next....oh well, I'm tired...time for a peek!
OK. I had the right start. Looks like Black will lose at least a rook. Keres just got it over quickly.
|Dec-20-07|| ||GannonKnight: Got it! :)
They seem to put games where the better (or at least better-known) player loses.
|Dec-20-07|| ||Tariqov: ????!!!! i dont understand, after 40 Raa8 Rf6 41 g5 Rf7 how is white clearly winning?|
|Dec-21-07|| ||zb2cr: <Tarigov>, you wrote: "after 40 Raa8 Rf6 41 g5 Rf7 how is White clearly winning?"|
The correct line is provided by <dzechiel>'s post way back near the beginning of the kibitzing for this game (try "Earlier kibitzing"). His line is:
40...Rf6; 41 Rh8+, Kg6; 42 gxh5+, Kf7; 43 Ra7#.
See also <UDayanOwen>'s post earlier on this same topic. Despite his misprint --he wrote "g6" instead of "g5"--he addresses this same variation.
|Dec-05-17|| ||Fusilli: <Eggman: ... Gosh, when you see the position after 28...Rxd5 (see below) it's impossible to imagine a World-Championship calibre player like Keres losing it!>|
Indeed, but it is instructive. The blunder move, 37...f5, should be instinctively suspicious to the seasoned player, as it leaves the rook unprotected, with the white king nearby. Keres must have been very short on time.
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