< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Jan-20-07 | | Timothy Glenn Forney: Chigorin also missed the nice move 7...Ne4! |
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May-21-09 | | Hugh the Drover: Charousek rides his, not passive aggressive, but active aggressive, pieces and tactics in a roll over Chigorin. Makes you wonder whether the victor had Kellogg's Corn Flakes for breakfast. |
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May-21-09 | | WhiteRook48: I <knew> Chigorin should've played 15....Bxf1 |
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Feb-13-10 | | ballroomblitz: Should he?
Please consider this: 16. Nc3!(sic)
a) 16. ... Bc4 17.Bg5+ f6 18.ef6x+ Kf7 19.fg7x
b) 16. ...Qc8 17.Bg5+ f6 18.ef6x+ Kf7 19.Qd5x+ Qe6 (19. ...Kg6 Rf1x !)20.fg7x Qd5x 21.gh8x N+! Kg8 (21. ...Ke6 22.Re1+) 22. Nd5x Tremendous,isn“t it? |
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Jun-27-10
 | | jessicafischerqueen: This Game was Round 7 of the Great Budapest International Tournament- only the second meeting between these two. Chigorin had won their earlier encounter at Nuremberg. They would share first at Budapest, and Chigorin would win the playoff mini match. |
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Nov-15-11 | | johnkpond: stef21: what about 15..Bxf1 16. Bg5+ f6 17. exf6+ Kf7 18. fxg7 Qxg5! then found by computer 19. gxh8N+ Kg7 20. Kxf1 Qf4+ 21. Ke2 Nc7 Am I not seeing smth? Once 15..Bxf1 White pushes knight to d5 which forces black to sacrifice queen? |
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Aug-07-13 | | phil6875: <ballroomblitz> Yes, if 15...Bxf1 then 16. Nc3 is the best continuation but then Black has only one good move, 16...Bxg2. 15...Bxf1 16. Nc3 Bxg2 17. Kxg2 Nb4 18. Bg5+ f6 19. Qb7+ Ke6 20. exf6 Nxc2 21. Rf1 Rb8 22. Qa6+ Rb6 23. Qe2+ Kd7 24. Qxc2 gxf6 = |
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Dec-09-13
 | | Phony Benoni: Note to <3...Nc6> from the "Baltimore American, May 6, 1900: <"A defense much exploited if not invented, by C. Moreau, of London. It was analyzed unfavorably by Prof. J. Berger, in the Deutsch Schachzeitung, and the present partie hardly tends to its rehabilitation."> THe "AMerican" does not give a source. Hard to tell if it is referring to Colonel Moreau, Camille Moriau, Charles Maurian, or some other person. http://www.chessarch.com/excavation... By the way, if it ever comes up the editor of the "Baltimoreo American" chess column from 1899-1901 was <Dr. Max Schapiro> (born January 4, 1857 in Crottongen, Russia), a physician associated with Baltimore City College and Johns Hopkins University. ("History of Baltimore, Maryland from its founding as a town to the current year, 1729-1898", p. 651.) |
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Sep-22-18 | | chessrookstwo: GREAT GAME ALSO |
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Oct-26-21
 | | master8ch: Chigorin's best move would've been 18...Resigns, but he missed that one, too. |
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Nov-17-23
 | | GrahamClayton: <stef21>
what about 15..Bxf1 16. Bg5+ f6 17. exf6+ Kf7 18. fxg7 Qxg5! then found by computer 19. gxh8N+ Kg7 20. Kxf1 Qf4+ 21. Ke2 Nc7 <stef21>,
Maybe 15..Bxf1 16. Bg5+ f6 17. exf6+ Kf7 18. Nd2 bringing another piece into the attack is another option? |
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Jul-18-24 | | Mayankk: Black is threatening Bxf1 but White can ignore it and have a strong attack after 12 Bxc6+ bxc6 13 Qxc6+ A) 13 ... Qd7 14 Qxa8+
B) 13 ... Ke7 14 Nxf4
B.1) 14 ... Bxf1 15 Nxd5+ wins the Queen
B.2) 14 ... Bc4 15 Nxh5 Bxf1 16 Bg5+ f6 17 exf6+ wins the Queen (or gets an additional Queen) B.3) 14 ... Nxf4 15 Bxf4
B.3.1) 15 ... Bxf1 16 Bg5+ wins Queen as shown above B.3.2) 15 ... h6 16 Rf2 Bc4 17 b3 should win the minor piece back. White should be 2 pawns up with an ongoing attack. Seems winning. |
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Jul-18-24 | | King.Arthur.Brazil: The king's line is: 12. Bxc6+ bxc6 13. Qxc6+ Ke7 14. Nxf4 Nxf4 15. Bxf4 h6 16. Nc3 Nc7 7. Rfe1 Bg4 18. e6 must win. E.g. 18... Bxe6 19. Bxc7 Qd7 20. Nxd5+ Ke8 21. Qxa8+ Qc8 22. Qxc8#. |
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Jul-18-24
 | | An Englishman: Good Evening: It seems clear that the text move offers at least a very strong attack, but for me the "Wow!" moves consisted of 17.e6 and 18.Bc7. |
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Jul-18-24
 | | perfidious: Chigorin, despite his brilliance as White in the King's Gambit, was renowned as a stout defender in this opening, but he faced an inspired effort from a young master who was, alas, taken from us far too soon. |
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Jul-18-24 | | mel gibson: I saw that but I wasn't sure it would lead to a win. Stockfish 16.1 says:
12. Bxc6+
(12. Bxc6+ (1.Bxc6+ bxc6 2.Qxc6+ Ke7 3.b3 Nb4 4.Ba3 a5 5.Nc3 Qc8 6.Qxc8 Rxc8 7.Nxe2 Kd7 8.c3
Nc2 9.Bxf8 Rhxf8 10.Rac1 Ne3 11.Rf2 f6 12.exf6 g5 13.Nxg5 Rxf6 14.Nf3 Rg8 )
+3.47/47 469)
score for White +3.47 depth 47. |
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Jul-18-24
 | | scormus: Another one where the difficulty is not in the first move. The text, 14 Nxf4, or some some other capture on f4 is very tempting. However, 14 b3 looks like the only move to win. If ... Bxf1?? then 15 Ba3+ is a killer. The sort of move I often overlooked in a game, to my cost. |
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Jul-18-24
 | | Dionysius1: Yay, I got 14.b3 instead of 14.Nxf4, and that's what SF prefers too. |
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Jul-18-24 | | TheaN: Some discussion already going on this puzzle since 2003 which is interesting; what does the modern computer era say? I saw <13.Bxc6+ bxc6 (Ke7 14.Bxb7 +-) 14.b3!> why <not> get in another piece with tempo? The issue for Black is that Ba3+ comes with the loss of the queen and the queen side is overworked otherwise. After <14....Nb4>, anything else pretty much fails, <15.Ba3 a5> I missed this defense, but <16.Nc3! +-> is straightforward. Hitting on d5 and this threat is technically not surmountable: best is 16....Qc8 17.Bxb4+ axb4 18.Nxd5+ +- and the Black position collapses. Mind that 16.Nxf4?! is bad after 16....Nxf4 17.Rxf4 Rc8! ∓ and all of a sudden White loses control due to that one additional tempo gained after exchanging on f4. Most discussion in '03 was about the text, b3 barely mentioned... 14.Nxf4?! is indeed inferior, even Re1 or Rf2 give White more advantage. The best line is discussed already, 14....Nxf4 15.Bxf4! Bxf1! 16.Nc3! (Bg5+ worse) Bxg2 17.Kxg2 Nb4! 18.Bg5+ f6 19.Qb7+ Ke6 20.exf6 Nxc2 21.Rf1:
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With an almost incomprehensible position. This is even apparently, and any alternative in the above line is worse for the color playing. Would be lying if I'd get it all. |
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Jul-18-24 | | TheaN: The subtlety missed in the 15....Bxf1! line by most is 16.Bg5+ f6 17.exf6+ Kf7!:
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I don't blame Chigorin for missing this, it's close to insanity. After the 'logical' 18.fxg7 Qxg5 -+ due to Qxg2#, White's best is 19.gxh8N+ Kg8 20.Qe6+ Kxh8 21.Kxf1 Qf4+ -+, but Black's just up the piece now. If instead 18.Nc3 Bxg2! (as in the immediate Nc3 line but now to expose the king) 19.Kxg2 gxf6 -+
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and due to Nb4 and g-file threats Black holds and should win. |
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Jul-18-24 | | TheaN: And as icing on the cake, if White plays fxg7 after Nc3 (12.Bxc6+ bxc6 13.Qxc6+ Ke7 14.Nxf4? Nxf4 15.Bxf4 Bxf1! 16.Bg5+ f6 17.exf6+ Kf7 18.Nc3 Bxg2 19.fxg7):
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19....Qxg5! 20.gxh8Q Be4+ 21.Kf2 Qf4+ 22.Ke2 Qxh2+ 23.Ke1 (Ke3 Bh6+ -#11) Qh1+ 24.Ke2 Qg2+ 25.Ke1:
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25....Be7 -+... holy moly. If Black plays this <knowingly> on move 15 he deserves to win. |
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Jul-18-24
 | | Teyss: Sunday already? Time flies. Very difficult puzzle as prove the long and interesting posts above, notably <TheaN>'s as usual. Most puzzles focus on one or two part(s) of the board, rarely three but here it's four! South-West with the option b3 which then becomes a move, North-West with the starting move and the main action, South-East with the option Bxf1 and the struggle around f4, North-East with the moves e6 and Rf7 as well as the option Bg5+ in some variations. It's all over the place. |
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Jul-18-24
 | | chrisowen: Fab josh mode an q irk Bxc6 acrid mad hoh adagio nug ignite Bxc6 cert; |
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Jul-18-24 | | King.Arthur.Brazil: <TheaN> I followed you thorough analysis and wonder if W could follow the line: <12. Bxc6+ bxc6 13. Qxc6+ Ke7> 14. Nc3 Nb4 15. Qb7+. In the case of 15... Ke6? 16. Rxf4
A) 16... Nxf4 17. Nxf4+ Kf5 18. Qxf7+ Kg4 19. h3+ Kh4 20. Ncxe2 g6 21. g3+ Kg5 22. Ne6+ Kh5 23. N2f4+ Kh6 24. Nxg6+ Kh5 25. Ne7#.
B) 16... Qd7 17. Ng5+ Ke7 18. Rxf7+ Ke8 19. Qxd7#.
C) 16... Qe7 17. Ng5+ Qxg5 18. Qxf7#.
D) 16... Qe8?? (and similar) 17. Ng5#.
Therefore, 15... Ke8 16. Nxe2. Material is even, W♔ is safe, B♔ is exposed, no defeat against Nxf4 next (16... g5 17. Nxg5). Other possibility is: 15. Qb7+ Qd7 16. Qxa8 Bxf1 17. Kxf1 Nxc2 18. Nxd5+ Ke6 19. Nhxf4+ Nxf4 20. Nxf4+ Ke7 21. Bd2 (Nxa1 22. Bb4+ will catch the ♕. ) 21... Qf5 22. Rc1 g5 23. Qxa7+ Ke8 24. Qb8+ Ke7 25. Qd6+ Ke8 26. Qc6+ Ke7 27. Rxc2 ... B ♔ is in a mate trap. However, some computer can tell if my point of view is wrong in less that 2s... Diagram:
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Jul-18-24 | | vajeer: I am not sure if 14.Nxf4 is really that bad. I see that computer analysis is showing 16...Qc8 as a possible defence. At this stage I am considering 17. Qxd5 as possible continuation
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After 17...Bxf1 18. Rxf1 Nc7 19. Qf3
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White now threatens Bf3 and f7 pawn will fall soon while white keeps a strong position. |
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