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| Apr-21-06 | | TrueBlue: saw it all the way, not that difficult ... |
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| Apr-21-06 | | United33: <AlexandraThess> of course i did some calculation before i gave up and use my fritz9. Monday until thrusday, i found the answer by myself, and last week i found all answer by myself. But for this puzzle, after analyzing for about 30 minutes, i give up and turn my engine on to find the answer. Don't get me wrong, but 20...Ke8 and black win, proof it yourself if u think u are a genius player !! |
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| Apr-21-06 | | TrueBlue: Here is a line: Rf1 Ke8. Qf2 Kd7
Qf8 Qe6. b3 b5. Rf6 . Not saying I covered all possibilities, but most of them look pretty good for white |
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| Apr-21-06 | | United33: <TrueBlue> you must remember that white lost his bishop, if white can't force black king to the mate position or at least get his material back, so it's fair to say that white gonna lose. |
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| Apr-21-06 | | TheUnkraut: Yes, if it would be so easy.... |
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| Apr-21-06 | | Saruman: 25.h4 Ne7 26.hg Kxg5(26.-hg 27.Bxe5  )
27.Qg7+ Ng6 28.Rf5+ Kg4 29.Qxh6 .
If 25.-Nd4?? 26.Rg8+ QxR(26.-Kh5 27.Rxg5#) 27.QxR+ |
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Apr-21-06
 | | LIFE Master AJ: I did not get it.
I analyzed for about 5-10 minutes ... and just gave up, and looked at the game. I got as far as Black's 21st move, but once I saw that Black could cover f6, and f7 with ...Qe6; I was stumped. In retrospect, it should not be surprising that Black should lose. He is behind in development, and his King is not safe. Additionally, he finds it almost impossible to get his Q-side forces into the game. But even after noting all of this, its still a grand and beautiful sacrifice. I would classify this as a denuding sacrifice, would anyone else agree. <patzer2>? |
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| Apr-21-06 | | TrueBlue: well, if you look at the postion, this is the only attack by white. It takes advantage of black's undeveloped position. Maybe white looses a bishop, but the sacrifice freezes most of black's peaces and puts pressure on the king. It was easy for me to see, but it is not something fritz will show you, I am guessing. |
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| Apr-21-06 | | itz2000: I saw the sac, but couldn't find the continuation!
spent 20 min untill I gave up.
didn't know how to continue after the Rxg7, Rxg7, Bxg7, Kxg7, Rg1+ |
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Apr-21-06
| | LIFE Master AJ: <TB>
"It was easy for me to see, ..."
You must be a GM.
... "but it is not something fritz will show you, I am guessing." Dead wrong, Fritz finds it rather quickly. |
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| Apr-21-06 | | United33: <TrueBlue> yes, u are right about this, normally human player will see that white has better position since human player can't calculate 12-15 moves forward. But a very strong chess program like fritz9, rybka1.1, shredder9, etc are different because it can covered all possibilities and analyze it 12-15 moves forward that seems impossible for human player to do that. |
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| Apr-21-06 | | jperr75108: I found Rxf7 but I couldnt go much further than that. |
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| Apr-21-06 | | dakgootje: <according to fritz9, 18.Rxf7?? is a blunder !!!, but.... 20.... Kg6??? is bigger blunder than rxf7, so white win not because rxf7, but because Kg6, it should be Ke8, and black win.> Reminds me of <The winner of a game is the one who has made the next to last blunder.> (tartakower wasnt it?) Well i got the main idea for the attack as it was the only puzzle-like move, but in a real game, i wouldnt play it as i was FAR from sure that white had a winning attack, thus without a definite idea i finally clicked on the puzzle, finding out that the idea was right, but after reading most of the comments i saw that the computers werent supporting the idea... |
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| Apr-21-06 | | TheUnkraut: So you didnt found Rf7: -you just made a move. Its the consequences what its about |
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| Apr-21-06 | | United33: <LIFE Mater AJ> don't tell me that u use chess program. See all chessprogram analysis above. None would give u recomendation to move 18.Rxf7. It is suicide move according to Frtiz9 analysis, because after 20...Ke8 white will gonna lose <TheUnkraut> i did see Rxf7 move, but then i realize that 20..Ke8 will put me in trouble, so i did not choose it. |
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| Apr-21-06 | | TheUnkraut: United 33: 20. Ke8 is not a loose for white- it comes to a uncertain position (in best case for black with a night against 3 more pawns-but it seems as if white might have good, maybe even winning chances in the differnt endgames. For me, even if i would prefer 19.h4 after all, 19.Rf7 still remains a good "practical" move |
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Apr-21-06
| | LIFE Master AJ: <United33>
Throw your old, outdated laptop in the garbage ... and buy something that performs at acceptable levels. |
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| Apr-21-06 | | United33: <LIFE Mater AJ> Post your fritz analysis here, i'm waiting now. Maybe you have Fritz 10 or maybe Fritz 12 i don't know, but according to Rybka1.1 and Fritz9 (which is known as the best chess program in the world, Rxf7 is suicide) |
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Apr-21-06
| | LIFE Master AJ: <United>
I don't respond to an ultimatum, especially when it is laced with insults and sarcasm. Fritz it yourself ... if you even own a copy of the program. |
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| Apr-21-06 | | The17thPawn: <Counterpoint> - 19...Nc6 stops the fork and returns the threat on whites queen. |
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| Apr-21-06 | | United33: <LIFE Master AJ> so u don't have Fritz program do you ??, so why did u tell us that fritz move 18.Rxf7 |
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Apr-21-06
| | LIFE Master AJ: <United>
I will attempt to remove one of the old handles from my 40 slots ... so as to make room for you on my ignore list. Have a nice life.
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| Apr-21-06 | | United33: <LIFE Master AJ> LOL, u hope that words would prevent you from another embarrassment. Have a nice day little boy. |
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| Apr-21-06 | | tacite: I got it until move 21.Qf2
I also thought to play 18.Bxe5 Qxe5 and after the continuation 19.Rxf7+. But it would have leave to nowhere for white (well, I guess so). |
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| Apr-21-06 | | JustAFish: I picked 18. Qc3 also expecting Bxe5 and pinning black's rook against his king somewhere down the line. This line leaves me confused, though Rxf7 is the "puzzle" move that that immdiately jumped out at me. I couldn't make Rxf7 work. |
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Kibitzing
sac: 19.Bxf7