|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 5 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Apr-21-06 | | acirce: Well, mainly because it doesn't. It's already been pointed out that the puzzle is very likely flawed as Black has 19..Bg4 as well as 20..Ke8. |
|
| Apr-21-06 | | YouRang: I didn't get it -- not even close.
Of course 18. Rxf7+ is an obvious move to consider, and I spent some time looking at it. But I wasn't (and still am not) conviced that it forces a win. |
|
| Apr-21-06 | | kevin86: All of this fighting! My comp is better than your comp,etc. lol I missed this one-I didn't see the total penetration of white's queen and bishop into black's position.; |
|
| Apr-21-06 | | goldenbear: I looked at this for 5-10 mins and never could get myself to focus on anything but h4. I never considered the "obvious" Rxf7. |
|
| Apr-21-06 | | Shajmaty: <YouRang: Of course 18. Rxf7+ is an obvious move to consider, and I spent some time looking at it. But I wasn't (and still am not) conviced that it forces a win.> It won because of 20... Kg6. 20... Ke8, with more space for Black's King, would have made things more difficult for White. |
|
| Apr-21-06 | | goldenbear: BTW, 7.h3! has to be the move. I say this b/c I only play 2.f4 after 1.e5. Pretty sure 7.fxe5? blows everything White had going (and I think he had a comfortable edge). |
|
| Apr-21-06 | | Shajmaty: <goldenbear: Pretty sure 7.fxe5? blows everything White had going (and I think he had a comfortable edge).> 7. f5 is the Main Line. I had the same position on the board in 1989, against Rubén Ceñal, and also played 7. fxe5. The game continued 7... Nxe5; 8. Nxe5, dxe5; 9. Bg5, c6 (N) and ended with a draw after 22 moves. |
|
| Apr-21-06 | | goldenbear: Hmmm. 7.f5 seems to commit White to h3 anyway. Why not reserve f5, hoping to deploy the bishop with tempo? If 7.h5, for example, now with 8.f5, g6 is forbidden for a good while. |
|
| Apr-21-06 | | mstover: I decided best was 18.d4 cxd4 19.Qf2 Ng6 20.Rxd4 Qxd4 21.Qf6+ Kh7 22.Bxf7 Qxe4 23.Bxg6+ Qxg6 24.Qxf8 Of course, different black response at move 19 could fudge my line. |
|
| Apr-21-06 | | YouRang: <Shajmaty> <Ke8, with more space for Black's King, would have made things more difficult for White.> I agree with you, which is why I don't feel bad about "missing" this puzzle. When I was considering the 18. Rxf7+ line, 20...Ke8 seemed to be the natural response by Black. (I never even considered 20...Kg6). I wonder if <crafty> would be kind enough to consider what White should do if 20. Ke8? |
|
| Apr-21-06 | | goldenbear: 7.h3 is multi-purpose. It prepares the king-side pawn advance while providing space for the dark-bishop on the king-side. White's light-bishop may disappear any time by force with Na5, so I am certainly not fearing Be6, cuz after Bx, fx, fx, Nx, Nx, dx, Black has too many weaknesses. |
|
| Apr-21-06 | | Shajmaty: <goldenbear> I don't like h3, that's all. If not 7. f5 or 7. fxe5 (which I still believe to be the best, opening the f-file), maybe 7. Nd5 or even 7. Rf1 deserve a try. |
|
| Apr-21-06 | | goldenbear: h3 has a 100% win ratio for white, according to our database, an impressive 2-0, including a correspondence chess victory in 1991. |
|
| Apr-21-06 | | Mendrys: Knowing this was a puzzle position I got all the way to 20. Rf1+ but was unsure how to press the attack. So....I did not solve this puzzle. Like <Kevin86> I did not see the penetration of black's eighth rank. Even so I still have doubts about the soundness of the sac. <United33>, <Life Master AJ> can be a bit of a troll if you disagree with him. The fact the he has to clear one of his 40 allocated slots on the ignore list for you says quite a lot. |
|
| Apr-21-06 | | EmperorAtahualpa: Nice puzzle, even though Black "blundered", but that doesn't really matter. "Blundering" is a way too negative word in sharp positions like these, in which one move can make a tremendous difference. 20...Kg6 really isn't such a bad move, it's much more realistic to honor White with his brilliant response to it! I was looking at 18.Rxf7+ Rxf7 19.Bxf7 Kxf7 20.Rf1+, but couldn't find any follow-up! Like some others, I was also looking at 18.d4 and 18.h4 |
|
| Apr-21-06 | | goldenbear: <Mendrys> Man, give <Life Master AJ> a break. Anyone who contributes to this site as much and as meaningfully as he has deserves some respect. Also, people who breathe chess tend to be a touch eccentric. Furthermore, his ignore list shows only that he is weary of personal attacks; I might do the same if I were him. I, too, can be a bit sensitive at times. If you don't think 40 users have attacked him personally (not having anything to do with chess), read around. |
|
| Apr-21-06 | | Jim Bartle: I respect AJ on purely chess issues, and yes he contributes, but I can't resist giving him a hard time on non-chess matters. |
|
| Apr-21-06 | | melianis: I saw 18.h4, do i get 1/8? No, serioulsly did not think such a straightforward assault was possible. Credits to the executor. |
|
| Apr-21-06 | | goldenbear: <Jim Bartle> Fair enough. It depends on taste and intention, I guess. |
|
| Apr-21-06 | | Mendrys: <goldenbear> Don't get me wrong, I respect <Life Master AJ> for his depth of chess knowledge and many of his inciteful posts. I was only trying to be slightly critical. I agree he has his detractors and many of them have indeed made personal attacks. Perhaps <bit of a troll> was too harsh, but he can be awfully sensitive to mild criticisms or when someone disagree's with him. |
|
| Apr-21-06 | | Paintbucket: Bingo. I got that one. First thing I saw too. |
|
| Apr-21-06 | | HELLOHELLOWATER: can anyone read my message?? |
|
| Apr-21-06 | | blingice: Holy crap, <HHW>, you've asked this question for several different pages, and they've all been yes. Why should the website react differently today? GAH. |
|
| Apr-21-06 | | Halldor: <Apr-07-06 HELLOHELLOWATER: just checking if my kibits actaully works, so if you can read this message, type I CAN READ IT> I CAN READ IT! - I CAN READ IT!! - I CAN READ IT!!! |
|
| Apr-21-06 | | jmelton: As several people have pointed out, the combination played in the game, the supposed solution to the puzzle, can be successfully parried by Black. So, for example, 18. Rxf7+ Rxf7 19. Bxf7 Kxf7 20. Rf1+ Ke8 21. Qf2 Nc6 22. Qf7+ Kd8 23. Rf6 Qe7 24. Qg6 Bd7 25. Qxh6 Kc7 26. Qg5+ Re8, and Fritz rates the position about even. I didn't really need Fritz to tell me that in all likelihood 20...Kg6 was not the greatest defense by Black. But something told me White's position was too good for there not to be anything better than the line above. It looked to me like the best plan had to involve pinning the e-pawn with Qc3 and building up the pressure on the f-file by doubling rooks. So I ran some possibilities through Fritz (4.01, an oldie but as far as I can tell not sigificantly weaker than more recent Fritzes). It came up with the following killer line that was based on that plan:
18. h4 g4 19. Rf2 f6 20. Rdf1 b5 21. Qc3 b4 22. Bxe5!! fxe5 23. Qc4 Rxf2 24. Rxf2, and with his Rook and Bishop out of play, all Black can do to stop the enemy piece invasion is give the piece back with Nd5. Black winds up a pawn down with no compensation. 20...Be6 fails to 21. Rxf6! Rxf6 22. Rxf6 Kxf6 23. Qxh6+ Kf7 24. Qh5+ Ng6 25. Qh7+ followed by h5. The other reply to 18. h4 g4 19. Rf2 that I had Fritz look at was 19...f5. Here's what came up: 20. Qc3 Nc6 21. Re1 Qd4 22. Qxd4 cxd4 23. exf5 Rxf5 24. Rxf5 Bxf5 25. Bxe5 and, again, White is a pawn up with no compensation for Black. So, it appears that Adrian was correct to judge the position as containing exploitable Black kingside weaknesses, but the sacrifice he played appears to be premature and not the correct way for White to take advantage of Black's weaknesses. |
|
 |
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 5 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 19.Bxf7