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| Dec-28-04 | | e4Newman: Good analysis. Black's queen is boxed into the corner. It shows how quickly a game can be lost. Look at how horrible black's position is after 15.Nd4. At first I thought 24.Rf1 was a reasonable threat. Just keep pushing white's f-pawn to open up that file. |
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| Dec-28-04 | | e4Newman: Yes indeed, you mean 42.Ne2 (after 41.Kf2, and instead of 42.e4??). |
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| Dec-28-04 | | AgentRgent: Doesn't 42. Ne2 keep the game alive for white? If 42...Bxe2 43. Kxe2 and the king comes over to help the Queen deal with the pawn. if 42...Qb5 43. a4 Qb2 44. Qxb2 cxb2 45. Nc3 controlling the queening square and the king makes his way over to help take care of the pawn. <typos corrected - Thanks e4Newman> |
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Dec-28-04
 | | samvega: well there's 42.Ne2 Bb7. |
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Dec-29-04
 | | beatgiant: <AgentRgent>:
If nothing else, Black has 42. Ne2 Qb5 43. a4 Qc4. All White's pieces are tied down, pawn moves don't help to free White, and Black threatens to bring his king closer before exchanging pieces. For example, when the king reaches d6, Black could play ...Qxe2+; Qxe2 Bxe2; Kxe2 Kc5; trade his c-pawn for the a-pawn and end up with the outside passed pawn.I haven't done a complete analysis of this position, but I'd be really surprised if White can save it as late as move 42. |
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| Dec-29-04 | | e4Newman: <well there's 42.Ne2 Bb7> Doesn't 43.e4 Qc5+ 44.Kg2 hold the fort?
<If nothing else, Black has 42. Ne2 Qb5 43. a4 Qc4> What about 44.Ke1. It brings the king across to help defend against promotion. And black would come out of the exchange on e2 with nothing. It's going to take black a while to reach c5 <...Qxe2+; Qxe2 Bxe2; Kxe2 Kc5> |
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| Dec-29-04 | | AgentRgent: <samvega: well there's 42.Ne2 Bb7.> 43. Nd4 Qd5 44. Qb3 Qxb3 45. Nxb3 and White's king will make it over to kill the pawn and the ending should be drawn. |
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| Dec-29-04 | | e4Newman: Nice option <AgentRgent>. I think we can all agree that 42.e4 was a huge blunder. It's a pretty even game to there (i.e. "draw"). |
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Dec-29-04
 | | Chessical: Nimzowitsch would seem to have the advantage after: <35.Nxe6!> Qxe6 36.Qxc4 Qxe3+ 37.Kg2 Rb2 38.Rd7 Rxc2+ 39.Qxc2 c5 40.Rd3 Qe6 41.Rxa3 |
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| Dec-29-04 | | AgentRgent: <What about 44.Ke1.> after 44. Ke1 Black's best plan might be to forget the c3 pawn and go for kingside penetration with the queen. e.g. 44. Ke1 Qc6 45. e4 Qd7 46. h4 Qh3 47. Qxc3 Qh1+ 48. Kd2 Qg2 49. Qe3 Bxe2 50. Qxe2 Qxg3 but there's still a lot of play left for white even (soon to be) a pawn down. |
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Dec-29-04
| | Chessical: If Nimzowitsch had played <42.Ne2> it appears that Schlechter could have kept the advantage by immediately hitting the <Ne2> with <42...Qb5>, and if <43.Ke1> Qb2 44.Qxb2 cxb2 45.Nc3 Bd3 wins |
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Dec-29-04
| | beatgiant: <e4Newman>:
<What about 44.Ke1. It brings the king across to help defend against promotion. And black would come out of the exchange on e2 with nothing. >The point is to wait until the king is on d6 before exchanging. For example, 42. Ne2 Qb5 43. a4 Qc4 44. Ke1 Kf8 45. Kd1 Ke7, etc. <Chessical>:
<If Nimzowitsch had played <42.Ne2> it appears that Schlechter could have kept the advantage by immediately hitting the <Ne2> with <42...Qb5>, and if <43.Ke1> Qb2 44.Qxb2 cxb2 45.Nc3 Bd3 wins> The problem is that White has 46. a5 so that if 46...b1(Q) 47. Nxb1 Bxb1 48. a6. |
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| Dec-29-04 | | AgentRgent: <Chessical> 42. Ne2 Qb5 43. a4! Qb2 44. Qxb2 cxb2 45. Nc3 Bd3 46. a5! and if 46...b1=Q 47. Nxb1 Bxb1 48. a6! and white wins! |
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| Dec-29-04 | | e4Newman: <beatgiant: For example, 42. Ne2 Qb5 43. a4 Qc4 44. Ke1 Kf8 45. Kd1 Ke7, etc> Thanks for the clarification on that idea. However, I think 45.Kd1 is a mistake as the black queen can put white in check 45...Qd5+, fork the king and f-pawn, and continue to gobble up white's k-side pawns. I wonder if 44...Kf8 allows white to advance his k-side pawn majority? In the lines I tried I can't see it getting anywhere except to stall black;s king. |
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Dec-29-04
| | Chessical: <e4Newman> and <Beatgiant> Thank you for the correction - I take your point! I still think, however, that immediately hitting the <Ne2> would be best for Schlechter, e.g: 42.Ne2 <Bxe2> 43.Kxe2 Qb5+ 44.Ke1 (44.Kd1? Qf1#) 44...Qb2 45.Kd1 Qa1+ 46.Ke2 Qh1 47.Kd3 Qxf3 =(?) |
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| Dec-29-04 | | e4Newman: This is an interesting example of how many possibilities there are in the game of chess, even with fewer pieces on the board, and how powerful a passed or advanced pawn can be. |
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Dec-29-04
| | beatgiant: <e4Newman>:
You are right, this position is harder than I thought, because White can untie his pieces with 42. Ne2 Qb5 43. a4 Qc4 44. Ke1 Kf8 45. e4! (not 45. Nxc3? Qf1+ 45. Kd2 Qf2+ 46. Kc1 Qxe3+ 47. Qd2 Qxf3 48. Qd8+ Kg7 49. Qxc7 Qh1+ looks winning) and now 45...Ke7 46. Nxc3 becomes possible.That means maybe <Chessical> is right and the correct response is 42. Ne2 Bxe2 43. Kxe2 Qc4+ 44. Ke1 Kf8 45. a4 Ke7 so that if 46. a5 Kd6 47. a6 Kc6, etc. If White doesn't push the a-pawn, then Black brings his king to c5 followed by Qb4-b2 and trades into the winning pawn ending. I suspect Black wins but I haven't had time to create an exact line yet. |
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| Dec-29-04 | | AgentRgent: <Chessical: I still think, however, that immediately hitting the <Ne2> would be best for Schlechter> I agree, and I think your line after Qxf3 is complicated, but =. So 42. Ne2 certainly seems an improvment. |
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| Dec-29-04 | | e4Newman: So we seem to agree up to <42.Ne2 Bxe2 43.Kxe2 > 43...Qc4+ 44.Ke1 is an unproven attempt to bring up black's king, whereas 43...Qb5+ 44.Ke1 is an attempt to distance white's king from his pawns or grab the a-pawn, in exchange for the advanced c-pawn. |
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Dec-29-04
| | beatgiant: In queen endings, the winning process tends to be long and multi-branching because of the large number of possible queen checks. This makes it very hard to give a concrete line here, but I'll post one to give an idea of Black's chances with the power of the advanced passed pawn. 42. Ne2 Bxe2 43. Kxe2 Qc4+ 44. Ke1 Kf8 45. a4 Ke7 46. e4 Kd6 47. Kf2 Kc5 48. Ke1 Kb4 49. e5 Qb3 50. Qd3 Kxa4 51. Qd7+ Ka3 52. Qxc7 Qb1+ 53. Ke2 Qb2+ 54. Kd3 Qd2+ 55. Ke4 c2 56. Qa7+ Kb4 57. Qb6+ Ka4 58. Qa7+ Qa5 59. Qg1 Qc3 60. Qc1 Kb3. White is falling into zugzwang and will soon lose more material. After enduring a lot of checks, Black will probably win. This is only intended as a plausible sample. For the reasons mentioned, it would take a lot of work to give a complete proof. |
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Jul-13-10
 | | GrahamClayton: 15...c5 is an effective exchange sacrifice:
a) Black’s white squared bishop becomes a monster
b) White is very weak on white squares around his king
c) White will soon be forced to exchange his other bishop for black’s knight on g4 leaving black with
i) A lethal pair of bishops & ii) Clear plan for black and no good plans for White |
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| Feb-20-12 | | RookFile: 42. Ne2 does look correct. I think Nimzo was a little greedy here, if he could ever play Nd5 he would have a clear advantage. Black's ....Qb6+ and ....Qb2 was too quick, preventing that possibility. |
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| Nov-19-12 | | whiteshark: Game annotated by Prof. Nagesh Havanur: http://www.chessville.com/instructi... |
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| Feb-17-19 | | sudoplatov: During the first 10 moves, Black plays the Steinitz defense to the Ruy. |
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| Feb-17-19 | | sudoplatov: Stockfish (local version) finds 36.Kg2 to be a mistake; it also prefers 36...Qb6 to 36.Qc6. On the other hand, it hasn't predicted moves very well. |
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Kibitzing
sac: 15...c5
