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| Feb-22-09 | | Once: <goodevans> 25 Rxe7 Kxe7 26 Nxd6 Qxd6 27 Qe3+ Ne5 28. Bxe5 And we have this fascinating position:
click for larger viewBlack is a whole rook up, but is utterly lost. Some key variations: 28...Qd7 29. Qxc5+ Ke8 30. Bxf6 (threatening Re1+). Fritz says mate in 6 from here. 28...Qb6 29. Bc7+ and Bxb6
28...Qa6 29. Qxc5+ Ke8 30. Re1 Be6 31. Bxf6 Qb6 32. Qxb6 axb6 33. Bxh8 |
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| Feb-22-09 | | PinnedPiece: I played this one out, following my intuition a'la Short, and came up with this line, expecting a Q x 2R ending of some sort: 25.Rxe7 Kxe7 26.Nxd6 Qxb1 27.Bxb1 Ba6 28.Qe3+ Kf8 29.Bxh6+ Kg8 30.Qg5+ I'm thinking there are black improvements...
click for larger viewInteresting to see that the game line declined the queen sac. |
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Feb-22-09
 | | Jimfromprovidence: The position after 26…Qd8 adds much to the complexity of this puzzle. White has to play quite sharply for several moves to win material.
click for larger view
One continuation is 27 Qe3+ Kf8 28 Bxh6+ Rxh6 29 Qxh6+ Ke7 30 Nb5 Qf8 31 d6+! Kd8 32 Qxf8+ Nxf8 33 Nc7, which traps the rook.
click for larger view One unforced but plausible continuation leads to more interesting play to win the trapped rook. 33…Ne8 34 Nxe8 Kxe8 35 Be4 Bxf5 36 Bc6+ Kd8 37 Re1! (threatening mate in 1).
click for larger view
The rook is finally lost as black has to play Ne6 or Be6 to prevent mate. |
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Feb-22-09
 | | Domdaniel: 'Winning' the Black Queen with 25.Rxe7 Kxe7 26.Bxd6+ Kd8 (or ...Ke8 27.Nc7+ and Rxb6) 27.Bc7+ Qxc7 28.Nxc7 Kxc7 etc is just too easy - there has to be a lot more to it than that. Without looking at the game yet, I see two main types of idea for white: (1) rejecting the queen win and going for mate instead, or (2) winning the queen (for something like R+N+N) but also retaining enough initiative to keep the attack going, either with mate threats or sufficient energy to win back further material. Queen vs Rook and two minor pieces is an interesting balance. Other things equal, the pieces should be winning -- I've won games like this: letting my opponent think he was gaining a queen without seeing that he was giving away too much material in exchange. But other dynamic factors are what count - with an imbalance of this scale 'other things' are rarely equal. Some famous games come to mind: Smyslov running rings round Botvinnik's Queen with three minor pieces; Kasparov, more than once, winning with a queen against various collections of pieces because the queen had such dynamism. I once 'won' Tomy Miles's Queen (he let me, of course) for R+B+N. I assumed I was losing, and was surprised when he offered me a draw after a few more moves. It turned out that my queen was more dangerous than either of us had anticipated. So I expect something similar (in reverse) here - like those Kasparov games. Win the black queen, then keep pressing. It's possible that there's a better line where white just ignores the Qb8 - it's not very well placed, after all. But it has a useful defensive role, so eliminating it (apparently at material cost) may be the best route to the black King. Not yet time to check ... |
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Feb-22-09
| | Domdaniel: <'Tomy' Miles> ... aaargh. Sorry, Tone. It was Anthony J Miles, of course. In a simul. After he became a GM, and before he died. I've lost the score. I can remember the opening (a French Tarrasch, Miles White, starting 1.d4 e6 2.e4 d5 3.Nd2 b6) and the final disposition of material, but that's all. |
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Feb-22-09
 | | al wazir: Black would have done better to give back material with 26...Qxb1. |
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Feb-22-09
| | Domdaniel: This game seems to be in the database twice - the only difference being two different dates, 1984 and 1986. |
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Feb-22-09
| | Domdaniel: The game A Vyzhmanavin vs Ehlvest, 1984 is remarkably similar to this. We seem to have a *database duplication situation* here. A bit like a warp core breach, in its own way - the hero tends to fix it before the end. |
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Feb-22-09
 | | Open Defence: Cap'n I'm givin her all she's got but she won't hold... |
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| Feb-22-09 | | beenthere240: <al wazir> after 26. ...Qxb1 27 Qxb1, what does black do? He's got 2 rooks for queen, but his pieces are disorganized and white can still penetrate with 28 Qe1. I suspect black just figured that as long as he had a big material plus, he had winning chances if the attack petered out. Giving up Q for rook would dash even that hope. |
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Feb-22-09
| | Domdaniel: <Lt Commander Open Defence> Get an away team together and check out that deuterium waterfall, then. No, there's no need for spacesuits ... if there's falling water, there's *bound* to be some oxygen around *somewhere*. Let me know if you haven't found any by, eh, tomorrow. And that alien clothing-repair kit we found on Altair 23?
Make it sew.
Cap'n Pyggarse. |
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Feb-22-09
| | al wazir: <beenthere240: after 26. ...Qxb1 27 Qxb1, what does black do? . . . his pieces are disorganized and white can still penetrate with 28 Qe1.> I personally prefer 27. Bxb1 for white, followed by 28. Qe3; but yes, I agree that there is no joy for black in this line. But as long as you're alive there's a chance that your opponent will make a mistake, and black stays alive longer this way. |
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Feb-22-09
| | Domdaniel: I suppose that, just as people still learning to drive cars wear an L-plate ... nudists still learning how to wear clothes should wear an Ehlvest. |
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| Feb-22-09 | | goodevans: Thanks again, <Once>. I agree the position after 25 Rxe7 Kxe7 26 Nxd6 Qxd6 27 Qe3+ Ne5 28 Bxe5 is very interesting. I guess the nub of it is that black can't allow 29 Qc5+ and must give up his queen to prevent it, leaving him hopelessly lost anyway. |
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| Feb-22-09 | | snarky: Frustraing. I can see the initial move and many of the subsequent tactics. But I can't put the moves in the right order. Ugh. |
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| Feb-22-09 | | WhiteRook48: insane to think I had the answer anyway |
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| Feb-22-09 | | Cacoethes: Ehlvest has left the building!
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| Feb-22-09 | | Marmot PFL: The first few moves were easy, then it was tough to choose between 28.Re1 (best) and Bxh6+ winning back some material. Normally I would play the bishop capture, but here white was already down a piece so its critical to play the most accurate moves. Possibly white was not certain himself of the best continuation until the position appeared on the board. The combination really begins on move 20 when white allows e4 so I suspect there was some preparation or intuition along with good calculation. |
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| Feb-22-09 | | Woody Wood Pusher: Hey I got most of this, must be my lucky day!
haha |
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| Feb-22-09 | | Patriot: At first glance, I thought well just play 25.Nxd6 threatening the queen by discovery and threatening 26.Nxf7+ winning a few pawns and a rook. But then I noticed white is down a piece! That changes everything. 25.Nxd6 could be met with 25...Bxd6 26.Rxb6 Bxf4 27.Qxf4 axb6 and black may be the one winning. Another idea was 25.Rxe7 Kxe7 26.Bxd6+ Qxd6 27.Nxd6 Kxd6 and it still looks bad for white. It didn't occur to me to play 26.Nxd6 and I'm still having a hard time visualizing this. But whether white planned this position or not, he is forced to play something "insane" while down a piece and gain the initiative. Maybe black could play 26...Qxb1 giving some material back and possibly helping stem the attack, although he is getting rid of one of the few active pieces. |
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| Feb-22-09 | | ruinme: I think there are some interesting continuations after move 20... once black plays e4. What if instead of moving the queen, black takes right away? I mean, why doesn't black take right away? Please answer my question ASAP. Thanks. |
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| Feb-22-09 | | ruinme: I mean, I saw some pretty lines and could see why black could lose if he didn't protect the d6 square he'd be in trouble, I just want another opinion and more lines. |
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| Feb-22-09 | | johnlspouge: Sunday (Insane):
Vyzmanavin vs Ehlvest, 1986 (25.?) White to play and win.
Material: Down N+P. The Black Kd8 has 1 legal move, e8, on the file of the White Re1. The White Bf4 reinforces an attack on Pd3, so only the Black Be2 is likely to be able to recapture. The other White Rb1 has a discovered attack on Qb3 after Nb5 moves, and it can reload Re1. The White Qc1 and Bd3 require activation. The White Kg1 is momentarily secure, ironically, because of the Black Pg2. Candidates (25.): Rxe7, Nxd6, Bxd6
25.Rxe7
Black can decline the sacrifice, but retains only a P to compensate for a K in the center. Moreover, Pf7 and Pd6 cannot both be held. Thus, 25...Kxe7
Candidates (26.): Bxd6+, Nxd6
26.Nxd6 (threatening 27.Qe1+ or 27.Qe3+)
The alternative 26.Bxd6 permits Black to sacrifice Qb6 for a further B+N. White must not let Black close the e-file with …Ne5. (1) 26…Qxd6 27.Qe1+ Ne5 [else, Black has at least R+N for Q] 28.Bxe5 (threatening 29.d6+ 30.Bxf6)
White recovers the material in the course of a lethal mating attack. (2) 26…Qa6 [or Qa5] [Qb6-other is no better] 27.Qe3+ 27…Ne5 [Kd8 28.Nxf7#] [Kf8 28.Re1 (threatening 29.Qe7+ or 29.Qe8+)] 28.Qxe5+ (threatening 28.Nxf7 or 28.Re1)
Similar to the variations immediately preceding 28.Qxe5, Black is facing a fatal mating attack. |
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| Feb-23-09 | | DarthStapler: I got the first 3 moves. Also, Ehlvest has left the building |
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Jul-29-09
 | | Phony Benoni: More like Ehlvest got kicked down the back stairs into the alley. By the way, the game is actually from the 1984 USSR Championship in Lvov. Neither player participated in the 1986 event. |
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Kibitzing
sac: 25.Rxe7