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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Jan-08-17 | | gofer: I can't believe that the queen sac is going to work, so I looked at my only other choice... <40 Bd5 ...>
The bishop is immune. Accepting the sacrifice probably makes the
queen sacrifice work! I can't see it all, but it looks far to risky... 40 ... exd5
41 Qxg7+ Kxg7
42 Nf6+ 
So instead of taking the bishop black has to deal with white's threat of exchanging its rooks on e6 to set up a defensive nightmare
for black...
40 ... Nf8
41 Rxe6 Nxe6
42 Rxe6 Nxe6
43 Bxe6+ Kf8
44 Nf5 d5+
45 Kh4
<40 ... Ne5>
<41 Rxe5 dxe5>
<42 Be4 ...>
click for larger viewOkay, white has lost an exchange, but has three pawns attacking the king
along with the rook, knight, bishop and queen. So probably a done deal.
White will play 43 g6 opening up black's defences like a kipper. Whether black takes the pawn or not or not is immaterial. White simply plays Qe3 exploiting the weak kingside even further... White controls a1 and a8, so black's rooks are muted. I would suggest that black might try <42 ... Qb8> attacking Pb3, but that's only a guess... ~~~
Hmmm, black took the bishop. Well that makes things far simpler for white! |
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Jan-08-17
 | | grubyilysy: agb2002:
(...)
B) 40... Ne5 41.Be4
(...)
B.3) 41... Qd8!  42.g6?? (42. Nf3) Hh5+! 43. gh5 Qg5# |
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| Jan-08-17 | | morfishine: Was Rossetto Stoned?
***** |
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| Jan-08-17 | | kurdistan: Hi,,,my droidfish say that 40.Bd5 go to draw... |
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Jan-08-17
 | | PawnSac: < morfishine: Was Rossetto Stoned? > hey thats a good pun... < "Rossetto Stoned" > |
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| Jan-08-17 | | thegoodanarchist: Unhealthy Tan. |
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| Jan-08-17 | | YouRang: Insane Sunday 40.?
click for larger view
Naturally, one starts a puzzle by considering attack possibilities on the opposing king. In this case, I noticed that our Pg5 and Nh4 conspired to form a "wall" on the 6th rank (f6,g6,h6). Making this even more interesting, we have a rook battery on the e-file, and they would be excellent candidates to attack the 7th and 8th rank, which would be checkmate! In order to spring this attack, we need to remove black's Pe6 that blocks my rooks, and we need to remove black's Ng7 which guards Pe6 and the e8 "rook landing" square. Removing the Ng7 will be no problem since I attack it with my queen, and my queen isn't necessary in my mating scheme. But how to remove the Pe6? The only piece that I haven't involved in my scheme (yet) is the Bg2, and I can at least attack and pin that Pe6 with <40.Bd5!>
click for larger view
Obviously, if black suckers into my scheme with 40...exd5? I have 41.Qxg7+! Kxg7 42.Re7+ Kf8 (thanks to my 6th rank wall) 43.Re8+ Kf7 44.R1f7#. So what can black do to avoid this fate?
- Guarding Pe6 and Ng7 with 40...Nf8, but white then can invade with 41.Rxe6 Ngxe6 42.Rxe6 Nfxg6 43.Bxe6+ Kf8 44.Qh8+ Ke7 45.Qf6+ Ke8 46.Nf5! forming a wall on the 7th rank (d7,e7,f7) threatening Qh8#. I don't think black can do much besides delay checks. - Blocking Pe6 with <40...Ne5>
click for larger view
This seems to be a stumper. :-(
~~~~
Checking with the computer, the computer is stumped too. That's annoying. This means that the whole scheme is busted, and that playing 40.Bd5 is based on the *hope* that black doesn't figure out the scheme. Now I see that in this game, black fell for the "sucker" line, but I'm surprised. Players usually don't throw away bishops for nothing. A glaring lack of suspicion on black's part. I'll note that the computer wouldn't have even bothered with 40.Bd5. It likes 40.Kh2 better. |
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| Jan-08-17 | | YouRang: <An Englishman: Good Evening: Why has this puzzle returned? Did someone find a refutation of 40...Ne5?> I hadn't realized this was a recycled puzzle. This gives new meaning to its designation as an <Insane> puzzle: <“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results”.> |
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| Jan-08-17 | | YouRang: Checking further with the computer, I see that in my line above, I overlooked that black could retreat the king to g8 and block Re8+ with Nf8. However white is still winning after Nf5 threatening Nh6+. Sort of a moot point since black could have blocked the whole attack anyway... |
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| Jan-08-17 | | RandomVisitor: After 40.Bd5 Ne5 low ply shows nothing promising for white
click for larger viewKomodo-10.1-64bit:
0.00/30 41.Rxe5 dxe5 42.Be4 Ne8 43.Nf3 Nd6 44.Kh4 Qg7 45.Qe3 Rb2 46.Qxc5 Nxe4 47.Rxe4 Rxb3 48.Qc8+ Qf8 49.Qxe6+ Qf7 50.Qxe5 Rxf3 51.Qb8+ Kg7 52.Qe5+ Kg6 53.Qd6+ Kg7 54.Qe5+ 0.00/30 41.Bf3 R7a3 42.R3e2 Rxe2 43.Bxe2 d5 44.Kg2 Qb8 45.Bd1 Ra2+ 46.Re2 d4 47.Qg3 Qa8+ 48.Kf2 d3 49.Qxe5 dxe2 50.Bxe2 Ra3 51.Qxc5 Rxb3 52.Nf3 Qe4 53.h4 Ne8 54.Qe7 Qe3+ 55.Kg3 Qe5+ 56.Kf2 Qe3+ 0.00/30 41.Bh1 Qd8 42.Rxe5 dxe5 43.Qxe5 Rf7 44.Bf3 Qd3 45.Rd1 Rxf3+ 46.Nxf3 Qxd1 47.Qb8+ Kf7 48.Ne5+ Ke7 49.Nc6+ Kf7 50.Qf4+ Ke8 51.Qb8+ Kf7 0.00/30 41.Bg2 Qb8 42.Rf1 Nd7 43.Rf4 Qd8 44.g6 hxg6 45.Nxg6 Qg5 46.Rxe6 Nh5+ 47.Kh2 Rxg2+ 48.Kh1 Nxf4 49.Qh8+ Kf7 50.Qe8+ Kg7 51.Qh8+ Kf7 |
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| Jan-08-17 | | RandomVisitor: After 39...Nd7
click for larger viewKomodo-10.1-64bit:
<+0.31/41 40.Kh2> d5+ 41.Rg3 d4 42.Qf3 Nf8 43.Rf1 Qd6 44.Qe4 Ra1 45.Rf4 Nd7 46.Rgf3 Ra8 47.Rf1 R8a6 48.g6 h5 49.Rxa1 Rxa1 50.b4 hxg4 51.hxg4 cxb4 52.c5 Nxc5 53.Qxd4 Ne8 54.Qxd6 Nxd6 55.Rxb4 Kg7 56.Rb6 Ra6 57.Rxa6 Nxa6 58.Kg3 Nc5 59.Kf4 Nd3+ 60.Kg5 Ne5 61.Bf1 Nb7 62.Be2 Nc5 63.Bf3 Ncd3 64.Bg2 Nc5 65.Nf3 Nxg6 66.Nd4 |
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| Jan-08-17 | | mel gibson: The computer doesn't agree.
it replies 40...Nd7-e5 score -0.33 depth 17
Therefore this game is not perfect as presented. It relies on a clever bishop sacrifice & then a bad followup from black. |
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| Jan-08-17 | | Pedro Fernandez: I saw 40.Bd5 (blocking black e6-pawn and threatening eventually Bxe6+), but 40...exd5? opening the e-row to the couple white rooks? I didn't analyze that move. |
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| Jan-08-17 | | ChessHigherCat: I saw Bd5 but I didn't see any follow-up after Nf8, and in fact I still don't! |
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| Jan-08-17 | | Cheapo by the Dozen: I didn't see what was so terrible about a simple 42 ... Kg8. So I never got to the more complex calculations of the actual game line. |
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| Jan-08-17 | | ChessHigherCat: <Cyphelium: <al wazir> Better is probably 40.- ♘f8 41. ♖xe6, for example 41.- ♘fxe6 42. ♖xe6 ♘xe6 43. ♗xe6+ ♔f8 44. ♕f6+ ♔e8 45. ♘f5 d5+ 46. ♔h4 and game over in view of 47. ♕h8+.> I was looking at just taking one rook with 40. Nf8 41. Rxe6 Nfxe6, 42. Rxe6 Kf1?, but I guess it still fails to 43. Qf6+ Qf7 44. Qd8+ |
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| Jan-08-17 | | johngalt5579: I'm sorry but doesn't nf5 solve things? |
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| Jan-08-17 | | thegoodanarchist: <i evermore von guv thous bud mates 5 ousts o;> thous bud? You are drinking too much. I recommend cutting back to 3 or 4 bud |
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| Jan-08-17 | | johngalt5579: Cardoso was a flawed master anyway Fischer crushed him. |
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| Jan-08-17 | | johngalt5579: Who is chrisowen (?). And why are comments unintelligible? |
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| Jan-08-17 | | WorstPlayerEver: I think the point is that moves like Bd5 still looked pretty dangerous in 1958. Obviously I wasn't impressed, but that is completely irrelevant. |
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| Jan-08-17 | | YouRang: <Cheapo by the Dozen: I didn't see what was so terrible about a simple 42 ... Kg8.> After <42...Kg8>
click for larger view
White has <43.Nh6+ Kg7> (43...Kh8 or ...Kf8 lose quickly to 44.Re8+)
click for larger view
<44.Re7+ Kg6 45.R1e6+ Nf6 46.Rxf6+ Kxg5 47.Ree6>
click for larger view
...and Rf5# soon |
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| Jan-09-17 | | stst: Late, get over to Monday already..... but still try...
Try Q-sac:
40.QxN+ KxQ
41.Nf5+ exN
42.Re7+ Kg6
43.Re6+ (A)Kxg5 44.h4+#
(B)......Nf6
44.gxf5+ Kxf5
45.Be4+ Kxg5
46.h4+ Kh5
47.Bf3+ Kg6
48.h5+ Kg5
49.RxQ and White prevails
see the game goes differently.... |
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| Jan-09-17 | | stst: It happens time and again that the game was not following the optimal line for BOTH sides.
Here, Bd5 is a wishful move. If Black responds by Ne5 to block, does White sac a Q or R to capture this N, while the N@g7 is guarding the P@e6? Following a sub-optimal line and let the reader happy by "striking" the "right" move is certainly not CG's wish though, eh?! |
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Feb-14-17
 | | offramp: <YouRang:...Sort of a moot point since black could have blocked the whole attack anyway...> You mean <not> a moot point. <Moot> means <subject to debate, dispute, or uncertainty.> I think you meant <irrelevant>. |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 41.Qxg7+