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Eduardo Thelio Limp vs Andres Rodriguez Vila
Mercosur Cup (2001), Vicente Lopez ARG, rd 6, Jun-29
Dutch Defense: General (A80)  ·  0-1



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Premium Chessgames Member
  johnlspouge: < <Athamas> wrote: [snip] I wonder if my analysis is correct... engines? lol >

The engine analysis is on me :)

I figure I owe it to you after yesterday's debacle :>P

Oct-04-09  BOSTER: In this case open and weakend black King is decisive factor for combo. The most attractive spot for white queen is the square h7. It means white has to conque the diagonal b7-h7. So 1. 24.Bh3-deflection
25.Qd3 Bxe7
26.Qg6+ Kh8
27.Rxe7 and mate in couple moves.
2. 24.Bh3 Qg6
25.R1e6 the threat b4 and Rxc6 Bb5
26.Nh4 Qg5
27.f4 and Queen is trapped Bxe7
28.fxg5 Bxg5
29.Qh5 and white wins because Ra8 and Na5 too far from battle. 3. 24 Bh3 Qh5
25.Qd3 Be7
26.Rxe7 Rf7
27.Be6 Be8
28.Ne5 and white is better.
Oct-04-09  Utopian2020: I got Bh3 because this is a puzzle. In a puzzle, I examine the obscure moves first. In a game, I examine the obvious moves first. Perhaps, there is a lesson to be taken from this.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: So he missed it!! Surely not!! He must have been in time trouble I saw Bh3 immediately I looked at the position!! He should have played it whatever!!!

I missed a winning move (found it on Fritz after the game of course!) in tournament this week but I was racing to get to move 40. - so maybe it was the same kind of situation.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: There will be some limp jokes about this tragedy?
Oct-04-09  TheChessGuy: Nope. Total misfire. Congratulations to all who worked it out and found 24.Bh3!!
Oct-04-09  butilikefur: <24. Bh3 Qh5> 24...Qg6 (24...Qxh3 25. Qd3 Rf7 [25...Bxe7 26. Qg6+] 26. Qg6+ Rg7 27. Rxg7+ Bxg7 28. Re7) 25. Re6 Re8 (25...Qh5 26. Qd3) 26. Ne5 Qe4 27. Nxc6 Qg6 (27...Qxe6 28. Bxe6+ Kh8 29. Qh5 [threatening e8] 29...Rxe7 30. Qxh6+ Rh8 31. Qxf8+ mate) 28. Ne5 wins

<25. Qd3 Rf7> 25...Bxe7 (25...Bg7 26. Be6+ Kh8 27. Ne5) 26. Rxe7 Rf7 27. Be6 Raf8 28. Ne5 Be8 29. Rxe8 Rxe8 30. Bxf7+ Qxf7 31. Nxf7 Re1+ 32. Kg2 Kxf7 33. Qh7+ wins

<26. Rxf7 Kxf7 27. Qh7+ Kf8> 27...Bg7 28. Bg4 wins the queen

<28. Be6> and Black must lose material to stop 29. Qg8+ Ke7 30. Bc8+ Kd6 31. Re6+ mate, for example 28...Qe8 29. Qg8+ Ke7 30. Bxd5+ Kd8 (30...Kd6 31. Re6+ Kd7 32. Rxe8 Rxe8 33. Qf7+) 31. Rxe8+ Bxe8 32. Bxa8

Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: <TheChessGuy> Thank you!!
Oct-04-09  ReikiMaster: Looking at the diagram I wrongly assumed that White had sacrificed the piece deliberately and had a winning plan. Hence I only sought moves attacking the King and the Queen.

Bh3 was all I could find. The consensus here seems to be that it is in fact a winning move.

Oct-04-09  netlava: I figured this puzzle in about 10 seconds. First Sunday puzzle I got since I started visiting this site again.
Oct-04-09  tacticalmonster: 1) white has two pawns for the bishop
2) white rooks dominate the e file but the e7 rook is threatened 3) black has two weaknesses: c7 and h6 pawn
4) black knight is out of play but it can be brought back to d6 via c4 5) black rook and queen indirectly pressure f2
6) black kingside is lack of pawn shielder but three black pieces are safeguarding the king 7) with the c7 pawn gone, the d5 pawn can be a potential weakness

conclusion: timing is very important here. Black a8 rook and a5 knight are passive. There is nothing decisive here yet as the white force is not cordinating enough for attack. White minor pieces and queen need better square. The light square is important here. Put the knight on e5. long digonal pressure on g2-a8 for the bishop. keep the rook safe on seventh rank. Put the white queen on g4 or h5. White would either attack the exposed king or pick off black weaknesses to go into pawns verse piece endgame.

candidate hint: white rook needs to move out of the way as white force is not cordinate enough yet for an exchange sacrifice.

Rxc7: three pawns for the piece. tie down black knight. weaken the d5 pawn. prepare Rxc6.

1. Rxc7 Bd8 2. Rxc6 Nxc6 3. Ne5 Qxf2+ 4. Kh1 Nxe5 5. dxe5 Kg7 6. Rf1 Qe3 7. Bxd5 Bg5 8. Bxa8 Rxa8 9.Qd7+ Kh8 10. Rf7 Qe4+ 11. Kg1 Be3+

Oct-04-09  tacticalmonster: lol. not even close. I guess I at least suggest why Rxc7 is bad
Oct-04-09  gofer: 24 Bh3 ...

24 ... Qxh3
25 Qd3 ...

25 ... Bxe7
26 Qg6+ Kh8
27 Rxe7 and Rh7# is unstoppable

25 ... Rf7
26 Qg6+ Rg7
27 Rxg7 Bxg7
28 Re7 and Qxg7# is unstoppable

So the queen must move!

24 ... Qh5
25 Be6+ Kh8 (Rf7 26 Bxf7+)
26 Ne5 Qxe5 (Qxd1 27 Ng5# or Qg5 27 f4)
27 dxe5 fxe7
28 Qh5 Kg7
29 Qg4+ Kh7
30 Bf5+ Rxf5
31 Qxf5+ Kg7
32 Qe6 winning

Time to check...

Oct-04-09  muralman: Please someone look at this. Perhaps I am repeating someone else in whole or part.

I looked at moving the e1 to e5 because I really wanted to move my night to h4. That didn't pan out, so I looked at moving the bishop to h3.

If black queen takes, my queen moves to d3 and black looses a queen en route to be checkmated. So the black queen moves to g6 covering my queens coveted square d3. Now I pin the bishop with moving e1 to e6

I don't know what black will do now, because my next move is to move the knight to h4 where the black queen is hopelessly trapped. I don't see how black can escape.

Oct-04-09  Athamas: That's the right solution <muralman> and yes it's been stated by several people already along with several side variations to that line.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: <ReikiMaster: Looking at the diagram I wrongly assumed that White had sacrificed the piece deliberately and had a winning plan. Hence I only sought moves attacking the King and the Queen. Bh3 was all I could find. The consensus here seems to be that it is in fact a winning move.>

I didn't even notice he was a piece down! So you're doing better than me - I had quick look at Bh3 - assuming a massively deep, brilliant, and complex win - so I just looked at the main ideas as if I had say 10 or 15 minutes to finish 18 or 26 moves or something as in a real game - and I came up with Bh6 which clears the diagonal b1 - h7 with a potential mate on h7 or f7 etc

I didn't notice the Q could go h5 (but I saw the Re6 Ne5 ideas etc) so there was some analysis here - that was good - but I think I would have found most of it over the board and Bh3 was really the only way to go (if you noticed it and it could be easy to overlook under pressure) so, assuming I spotted Bh3, I would have played it even if it wasn't clear - why struggle on with material deficit and miss an attacking chance and some possible glory?!

That said - I have done both - I have sometimes "chickened out", or not seen a move* (probably this more than I would care to know) - or I have gone for broke and lost - or won. In a great blaze of dust and indifference!

* Worse but I believe it is very common is to "wish fulfill" an attack - the mind puts pieces where one wants them to go - the other tendency of attacking or "combinative" players is to overlook or underestimate defensive resources - which I do all the time.

Oct-04-09  njchess: Surprisingly, I found 24. Bh3 pretty quickly. The Black king has so few defenders that threatening the queen seemed natural. Then, I looked a bit deeper and saw 25. Qd3 attacking the key b1-h7 diagonal.

To be fair, I did consider the text move, but I do not like leaving the 7th rank so easily, so I rejected it (besides, it is not a particularly forcing move).

Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: <lost in space: It took me a while to find 24. Bh3! Qxh3 25. Qc2(d3,b1) Bxe7 26. Qg6+ (not 26. Rxe7 Qf5 and not mate) 26...Kh8 27. Rxe7 and mate to follow

Alternatives for Black:
24...Qg6 25. R1e6 Be8 (25...Rae8 26. Nh4 Qg5 27. f4 Qxh4 28. gxh4 Rxe7 29. Rxe7 Bxe7 30. Qg4+ Kh7 31. Qe6 Bf6 32. b4! Be8 33. bxa5 clearly enough to win for white) 26. Nh4 Qh5 27. Qd3 Bxe7 28. Rxe7 Rf7 29. Re5 Rf6 30. Rxh5 Bxh5 31. g4 Bf7; White is up 2 pawns)

24...Qh5 26. Qb1 Bxe7 26. Rxe7 Rf5 27. Bxf5 Kf8 g4; Black is lost>

24...Qxf3 25. Be6+ Kh8 26. Qxf3 Bxe7 27. Qh5 Rf6 28. Bf7 Bf8 29. Re6 Rxe6 30. Bxe6 Bg7 31. b4 Nb7 32. Bxd5; enough to win for white.>

Good variations! A lot of work by you - there are some improvements by White also I think that if 24. ... Qh5 25. Qd3 is wiser to guard the Nf3.

Oct-04-09  muralman: Thank you Athamas. This was an especially gratifying win for me, because I had to flesh out a whole new attack, without anything telling me I was on the right path. I should learn some openings and get into playing chess.
Oct-04-09  TheBish: E Limp vs A Rodriguez, 2001

White to play (24.?) "Insane"

Material: White has only two pawns for a bishop; I assume White sacrificed a piece for this attack.

The most difficult part of this game position, I believe, is seeing the idea! Especially in light of the fact that you're already down material, and further material loss (Bxe7) is threatened. I was able to conceive of the idea because I noticed that if Black's queen were missing (or at least off the b1-h7 diagonal), White would have a decisive attack with Qd3! Thus...

24. Bh3!!

A common middlegame principle is, to improve the position of your worst placed piece. Does this qualify? Now if 24...Qxh3? 25. Qd3 (or Qc2) Bxe7 26. Qg6+ Kh8 27. Rxe7 with mate to follow in a couple, or if 25...Rf7 26. Qg6+ Rg7 27. Rxg7+ Bxg7 28. Re7, with mate again looming. So...

A) 24...Qg6 25. R1e6! (tempting is 25. Ne5!?, seeing that 25...Qg5?? 26. f4 traps the queen, but 25...Bxe5 26. R1xe5 Rae8 27. R1e6 Rf6 allows Black to defend).

Now Black's pieces are tied up, especialy the pinned bishop on f6. White threatens 26. Ne5 as well as 26. b4, winning either the Na5 or Bc6.

25...Qh5 (or 25...Bd7 26. Ne5 Qe4 27. Nxd7 with a crushing position) 26. Qd3! (our first goal is attained) Bxe7 (or 26...Rf7 27. g4 Qxh3 [27...Rxe7 28. gxh5 Rxe6 29. Qg6+] 28. Qg6+, winning as described above) 27. Rxe7 Rf7 28. Be6 (better than 28. g4 Rxe7 29. gxh5 Rae8) Raf8 29. g4 Qh3 30. Qg6+ Kh8 31. Rxf7 Rxf7 32. Bxf7 and Qg8# to follow.

B) 25...Qh5 26. Qd3 and now:

B1) 26...Bxe7 27. Rxe7 Rf7 28. Be6! Rae8 29. g4 transposes to the line in A).

B2) 26...Rf7 27. Rxf7 Kxf7 (or 27...Qxf7 28. Be6) 28. Qh7+ Bg7 (or 28...Kf8 29. Be6 is strong) 29. Ne5+ with a strong attack.

Running out of time... to check!

Oct-05-09  TheBish: Wow, Mr. Limp missed it! (Time for the bad puns, go ahead!) And I got it! So everything (notes) after 24. Bh3!! are a bonus!

Attention I "officially" nominate this game to be named "Limp missed it", which is a pun based on the rock band "Limp Biscuit"! Are you guys listening? I may have to e-mail you guys personally on this, I'm rather proud of that!

Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: For the Sunday, Oct 4, 2009 puzzle solution, 24. Bh3!! deflects the Queen and sets a decisive attack on the weakened castled position.

See <lost in space>'s last two posts for detailed analysis.

Oct-06-09  LIFE Master AJ: I did not get a chance to post on Sunday, I was pretty busy.

However, I did not think this was that difficult of a puzzle. 24.Bh3!, Qg6; (Black cannot take, he gets mated if he does.) 25.RxP/c7, is much better and/or winning for White.

The above is what I worked out in just a few minutes, while waiting for my ride to chess club. (Later - after chess club, I worked out a much longer and more complicated win. All of this work was done working ONLY from the diagram.)

Oct-06-09  LIFE Master AJ: <Oct-04-09
An Englishman: Good Evening: Too easy, as was Saturday's. After two months of going 3/7 or 4/7, this week was my first 7/7 in almost a year. I'll never understand chess.>


Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: White's play here was mostly Limp.
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