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Later Kibitzing> |
Sep-25-11
 | | al wazir: Why didn't Pirc play 15...Be7 instead of Bd7? |
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| Sep-25-11 | | Bluegrey: <al wazir>15..Be7 16. Nf5 e*f5 17.Nd5 and the black Bishop is under fire. If 17..Rd8 18 Bb6+ Kd7 19.Nf6+ and the black queen is lost.If instead 17..Q*e4 then 18.Bb6+ Kd7 19.Nf6+ and again the queen is lost If instead the bishop moves after Nd5 lots of nasties awai for black.But actally after 16. Nf5 the pawn capture itsel loses the queen So we can take the queen drectly but I think itsbetter to threaten mate with Nd5 and then take the queen after developing the dark squared bisop with check. |
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| Sep-25-11 | | bunbun: hmmm interesting comments about Moore's law...I'd hypothesize the reason that the computing time to recognize a clear win slightly exceeds the 2x/18 mo. ratio is due to algorith improvements alongside the processor speed improvements |
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Sep-25-11
 | | FSR: Not bad for a 66-year-old. Lasker finished third in this tournament, undefeated, a half point behind joint winners Botvinnik and Flohr. Here's another nice crush of a lesser player: Lasker vs Capablanca, 1935. |
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Sep-25-11
 | | An Englishman: Good Evening: I already knew this one, so no credit for me. In real life I never would have had the guts to pull the trigger. An astonishing masterpiece from the old man, in any case. You know, you simply *know* that he saw 15...Be7; 16.Nf5! before he played his lucky 13th move; in fact, he might have seen it after 10...Nc4? or after 12...fxe6?? (12...Bxe6 was the miserable best). |
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| Sep-25-11 | | rilkefan: Well, 13.Rxf6 is obvious. Then ...gxf6 14.Qh5+ Ke7. Here I couldn't make Nd5+ work, but I like 15.Nf5+. If 15...Kd7 16.Qf7+ and it looks like black's position crumbles. Ditto 15...exf5 16.Nd5+. If 14...Kd7 then 15.Qf7+ Be7 16.Nf5 Re8. Hmm, d6 is weak, 17.Nxd6 forces ...Kxd6 and white regains the invested material with a very strong attack after Qxe8 threatening Rd1+. [Used a board for the first time - but if this is approx. right it's a pretty easy Sunday I think.] |
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| Sep-25-11 | | rilkefan: Hmm, not considering the main line defense counts as a fail. |
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| Sep-25-11 | | sevenseaman: The exchange sac of the R at f6 stands out a mile; no one will miss that. After <13. Rxf6 gxf6 14. Qh5+>, no escape for the K looks to be
satisfactory.
14...Ke7 invites another adventure; <15.Nd5+ exd5 16. Nxf5+ Ke6 17. Qe8+
Be7 Qxe7# >
Kd7 is clearly a no no. I guess kd8 is the only viable response. <14...Kd8 15. Qf7 Bd7 16. Qxf6+ Kc7(orBe7) 17. Qxh8 (or Qh8+)
Bh6(or the tame Be7)>
click for larger viewThe game enters its last rites. Its pointless to flog a
dead horse by suggesting a N check and capture of the
remaining R.
My line (w/o notes);
<13. Rxf6 gxf6 14. Qh5+ Kd8 15. Qf7 Bd7 16. Qxf6+ Kc7
17. Qxh8 Bh6> 1-0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Aah the last hurrah; a spite check!
Its easier than Mikenas- Bronstein and Saturday supersedes Sunday
by some distance. |
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| Sep-25-11 | | rhickma4: There looks to be an obvious theme here.
Sacrifice the rook at f6, invade with a Queen check, and follow up with N checks on f5 and d5.
Let see how it pans out.
13.Rxf6 gxf6 14.Qh5+
Black has 3 possible K moves
14...Ke7 15.Nf5+ gxf5 16.Nd5+ Kd8 17.Bb6+ Kd7 18.Qf7+ Be7 19.Qxe7# 14...Ke7 15.Nf5+ gxf5 16.Nd5+ Kd7 17.Qf7+ Kc6 19.Qc7 Kb5 20.Qb6 Ka5 21.b3+ Ka3 22.Bc1# 14...Ke7 15.Nf5+ gxf5 16.Nd5+ Qxd5 17.exd5 This may well be best for Back, but White has Q for R+N and a clearly superior position
14...Ke7 15.Nf5+ Kd7 16.Qf7+ Kc6 (16...Kd8 17.Bb6+ wins) 17.Nd4+ Kb6 18.Nb3+ Kc6 19.Nh5+ wins So the next choice for Black is
14...Kd7 15.Qf7+ Be7 (15...Kd8 16.Qxf6+ wins) 16.Nf5 Re8 17.Nxd6 Kxd6 18.Rd1+ and White wins back the R and more The final choice is
14...Kd8 15.Qf7 Be7 (to save the R) 16.Nf5 Re8 17.Nxe6 Bxe6 18.Bb6+ Bc7 Rd1+ wins. Lots of variations here, but it seems Black must give up his Q at the very best. |
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| Sep-25-11 | | sevenseaman: <al wazir: I found a beautiful line, one even Lasker would have been proud of:
13. Rxf6 gxf6 14. Qh5+ Kd8 15. Qa5+ Qc7 16. Nxe6+! Bxe6 17. Bb6. It was so elegant that it just had to be right. I never even considered
14...Ke8>
<al wazir> 15. Qa5+ is a big idea but are you sure it is adequate after; <15. b6 Qxb6 16. Qc7 17. Nxe6+ Bxe6> Or am I missing something? |
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| Sep-25-11 | | sfm: After this game a journalist asked Lasker how it was possible to keep on winning, despite getting older. He answered: "Old or not old - when they put a finger in my mouth, I bite!" |
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| Sep-25-11 | | abuzic: 17.Qxh8, he is winning already, white could have played 17.b3... |
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| Sep-25-11 | | sevenseaman: In my solution comment here;
<14...Ke7 invites another adventure>; <15.Nd5+ exd5 16. Nxf5+ Ke6
17. Qe8+ Be7 Qxe7# >,
at move 16... Black had an option. Its inconsequential but the
long mate should have found a mention.
<16...Kd7 17. Qf7+ Kc6 18. exd5 Qxd5 19. Nd4+
Kc5 20. Qc7+ Kb4 21. Qc3+ Ka4+ 22. b3+ Ka3 23. Bc1#> |
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| Sep-25-11 | | cschornak: Moore's law does NOT state processor speed doubles every 18 months. It really states the number of transistors that fit on a chip doubles in that time. More transistors is not directly correlated to higher processor speeds. If you notice, in the last few years processor speed has not continued on a doubling course, but rather you have seen processor advancement coming in the form of more cores on a chip, bigger caches and on-chip peripherals. These features use those additional transistors. Speeds are continuing to rise, just not as fast as from 1980-2005. |
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| Sep-25-11 | | abuzic: <sevenseaman:
<al wazir> 15. Qa5+ is a big idea but are you sure it is adequate after;<15. b6 Qxb6 16. Qc7 17. Nxe6+ Bxe6> Or am I missing something?>
15.Qa5+ b6, your line of defence is the best for black: after 15...Ke7 16.Na4 (threatening ...Nb6) Bh6 (16...Kf7? or ...Ke8 17.b3!) 17.Bf2 Bd2 18.c3 Rg8 (18...Rb8? 19.b3 b6 20.bxc4 bxa5 21.Nc6+ Kf7 22.Nxb8 Bb7 23.Rd1) 19.Nb6 Qd3 20.g3. |
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| Sep-25-11 | | sevenseaman: <abuzic> You are a chess thinker and a quick one to boot. I liked your; <17.Qxh8, he is winning already, white could have played 17.b3...> A very good lateral idea the eye hardly travels to. |
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| Sep-25-11 | | abuzic: sevenseaman: In my solution comment here;
<14...Ke7 invites another adventure>; <15.Nd5+ exd5 16. Nxf5+ Ke6 17. Qe8+ Be7 Qxe7# >, What about 16...Bxf5? white loses here?
but 14...Ke7 15.Nf5+! Kd8 (15...exf5 16.Nd5+ another mate sequence or wins the Q 16...Ke6? 17.Qe8+ Be7 18.Qxe7#) 16.Bb6+ Qc7 (16...Kd7 17.Qxf7+ Be7 18.Qxe7+ Kc6 19.Qxd6#) 17.Bxc7+ and wins. |
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| Sep-25-11 | | dufferps: Many good kibitzes about alternative play up to the point where the game ended, but I am interested in how the game would have continued after 20. Kh1, if Pirc had not resigned. I don't see a forced checkmate nor significant additional material gains for white in the next few moves. What would be Lasker's strategy - would he be trading off Queens and pieces until the 6-4 pawn advantage wins it, or is there a quick mate to be found? How would he go about it? I see black's next move as 20. ... Bc6.
Is that reasonable? If so, what next? |
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| Sep-25-11 | | whiteshark: To err is human, but to really foul things up you need a computer. |
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| Sep-25-11 | | adhitthana: Fpr some reason I found this to be the easiest "insane" puzzle I've seen here.
I'm no great player but the moves seem to stand out. |
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| Sep-25-11 | | morfishine: Wasn't able to string the entire line together: Thought that after <13.Rxf6 gxf6 14.Qh5+> Black, for better or worse, would have to play <14...Ke7> to keep the White Queen out of <f7>; and that after 14...Ke7, <15.e5> was the "insane" move. <al wazir> Beautiful try, but <sevenseaman> is right: Black must play 15...b6; After 16.Qxb6+ Qc7 I think best for white here is <17.Qb3> (instead of trying to continue the attack with 17.Nxe6+ or Nxc6+). Position after 17.Qb3
click for larger view
For an exchange, white is up a pawn, threatening to win more and way ahead in development. Looks like a fun position to explore. Black has to be very precise. |
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| Sep-25-11 | | sevenseaman: <abuzic> Well spotted. Again sharp work! Don't I wish we were working together! |
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| Sep-25-11 | | rhickma4: What's the winning line after:
14.Qh5+ Kd8 15.Qf7 Be7 16.Nf5 Qc7?
17.Nd6 Qxd6 18.Rd1 wins the Q, but for 2 rooks. |
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| Sep-25-11 | | agb2002: A very famous opening crush from Moscu 1935. Therefore, not a puzzle but chess culture. |
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| Sep-25-11 | | abuzic: <dufferps: Many good kibitzes about alternative play up to the point where the game ended, but I am interested in how the game would have continued after 20. Kh1, if Pirc had not resigned.......
I see black's next move as 20. ... Bc6.
Is that reasonable? If so, what next?>
Fist let me say that black accepted the R sac with 13...gxf6 and we had the chance to see the beuatiful 15.Qf7!! and the following mate threats; when he could play say 13...Bd7 14.Qh5+ g6 16.Rxg6 0-0-0 a piece down, but a bloody cool position certainly not for a puzzle. 20...Bc6 after the end of the actual game seems a reasonable choice...
21.Qh8 would be a good start. Besides attakcing h7 it may allow for white to exchange N for B without loosing a P.
If black takes 21...Bxe4 22.Nxe4 Qxe7 then 23.Qc3+ Bc5 (or the B is in jeopardy) 24.Re1. White must be careful not to fall into back-rank threats.
21....Qh6 and 21...h6 seem OK here.
White can trade the N for a B to get rid of the B pair.
21.Qh6 22.Nd5+ Bxd5 (22...Kd7 23.Rf1 is not in black's favor) 23.exd5 one target reached...The white Q may look odd in the the 8 file, but has the c3 square to move around and the 7 file to bother the K.
As you see no direct threats, no calculated mate. One can go on like that, but black recognized the strength of his opponent and rewarded him and himself his resignation. |
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Kibitzing
sac: 13.Rxf6