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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Dec-19-13 | | Amadori: got 31...f4. Then all hell broke looce |
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| Dec-19-13 | | JimNorCal: 36. ... Qxe2+ followed by f2 looks strong. |
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| Dec-19-13 | | thegoldenband: <JimNorCal: 36. ... Qxe2+ followed by f2 looks strong.> Not just strong, but immediately lethal and totally straightforward -- which makes 36...Qxd4+ a major mistake, since White can continue to offer at least token resistance after the game line and then 38. Qc2+. |
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| Dec-19-13 | | shivasuri4: <al wazir>, yes, but the position is now simplified and the win is assured. Also, 36...Qxe2+ 37.Kc1 f2 is the more accurate way to play. |
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| Dec-19-13 | | diagonalley: managed to get the moves to 33... P-B6 hoping that was good enough - seems it was (though i should have foreseen 34. RxP+ and didn't) ... nice puzzle |
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| Dec-19-13 | | WoodPushkin: Greetings:
This is a toughie. Pinned bishop. Both rooks have issues. The position is 'almost' blocked enough for... 31..Ng4 but not quite as e4 is weak and the Black king is exposed to checks. So,
32.RxN fg4 33.QxR g3 will be too slow as the white queen opens a perpetual checking account which will pay a default swap dividend on f4 when Black is out of pieces to Whites bishop. With all that in mind the pinned bishop is worth the hanging rook because of the weak/backward e3 pawn. <31...f4!> clears the path for attack and Whites position collapses. If 32. QxR then the resulting position is Q + three pawns vs. Q, N and five pawns. ex. 31...f4
If 32. Qxa8 Qxe3+ 33. Kd1 f3 34. Rxg7+ (34. Bxf3 Qxf3+ 35. Kc2 Qe2+ 36.
Kb3 Qe3+ 37. Kc2 Qxg5) Kxg7 35. Qb7+ Kg6 36. Qc8 Qxd4+ 37. Ke1 e3 0-1 If 32. ef4 (a better defense) then the result is Q,B and pawn vs. Q,N and five pawns (four on dark squares) (32...Qxf4+ 33. Kd1 Qxg5 34. Qxa8 Qg1+ 35. Kc2 Qf2 36. Kd1 Qxd4+ 37. Ke1 Qa1+ 38. Bd1 Qc3+ 39. Kf1 Qc4+ 40. Ke1 Qb4+ 41. Ke2 Qxb5+ 42. Ke1 Qb4+ 43. Ke2 Qb2+ 44. Ke1 Qc3+ 45. Kf1 d5 46. Qb8) Either way its an overwhelming win for Black with correct play. Both ideas have Black opening its own checking account which pays interest in pieces and pawns being swept away by the queen until a mutual 'fun' trade can be arranged and White can resign w/ its 'bad' bishop. JAH Love |
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| Dec-19-13 | | whiteshark: Yes!
... |
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| Dec-19-13 | | morfishine: I got <31...f4 32.Qxa8 Qxe3+ 33.Kd1> then struggled between 33...Qxd4+ & 33...f3 and was unable to come to a conclusion A pity since 33...f3 is so much better :(
***** |
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| Dec-19-13 | | gofer: This was not so tricky...
<31 ... f4>
<32 Qxa8 Qxe3+>
<33 Kd1 f3>
White probably resigns at this point as both the rook and bishop are lost leaving black two passed pawns and there is no obvious way forward as knights are very useful at stopping checks from queens! ~~~
Okay white realised that the rook was done for and so threw it at the black king, which takes us to here... <34 Rxg7+ Kxg7+>
<35 Qb7+ Kg6>
click for larger viewWhy doesn't white resign this? There are no checks available for white on the light squares and so Nf6 is going to make a perpetual check extremely difficult to find given that the queen can on give check on g3 and has no route to g3! <36 Qc8??>
Why did black play Qxd4+?? Surely black should play
36 ... Qxe2
37 Kc1 f2 mating in two more? |
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Dec-19-13
 | | Penguincw: Unfortunately, I didn't even the rook on a8 attacked and tried 31...Kh6. |
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| Dec-19-13 | | Nick46: <WoodPushkin: Greetings: This is a toughie...> Agreed, but just wait till roarin' Sunday. |
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| Dec-19-13 | | agb2002: Black has a knight and two pawns for a bishop.
White threatens 32.Qxa8, 32.Qxb6, 32.Qxd6 and 32.Qc7 followed by Qxg7#. The white king is not very safe and the white rook is defenseless. These details suggest 31... f4: A) 32.Qxa8 f3
A.1) 33.Qb7 Qxe2+ 34.Kc1(3) Qxe3+ and 35... Qxg5 - + [N+3P]. A.2) 33.Rg4 Qxe2+ (33... Nxg4 34.Qxe4+ and 35.Qxf3) 34.Kc1(3) Qxe3+ and 35... Nxg4 - + [N+3P]. A.3) 33.Rf5 Qxe2+ 34.Kc3 (34.Kc1 f2 - +) 34... Qxe3+ 35.Kc2 (35.Kc4 Qd3#; 35.Kb2 Qxd4+ followed by f2, etc.) 35... f2 36.Qb7 f1=Q 37.Rxf1 Qe2+ and 38... Qxf1 - +. B) 32.exf4 Qxf4+ 33.Kd1 (33.Kc3 Qxg4 34.Qxa8 Qe3+) 33... Qxg4 34.Qxa8 Qd5 - + [N+2P vs B]. C) 32.Rf5 fxe3+ 33.Kd1 Qxf5 34.Qxa8 Qd5 - + [N+3P vs B]. D) 32.Rxg7+ Kxg7 33.Qxa8 f3 - +. |
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| Dec-19-13 | | Marmot PFL: 31...f4 32 Qxa8 (already too late to turn back with Qc3 as f3 wins) 32...Qxe3+ 33 Kd1 (Kc2 Qxe2+ with 3 pawns for exchange and unstoppable passed pawns) 33...f3 with double attack on rook and bishop. |
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| Dec-19-13 | | kevin86: The passed pawns will eventually win the show |
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Dec-19-13
 | | LIFE Master AJ: The key is to see the double-attack after 31...f4!; 32.QxR/a8, QxP/e3+!; 33.Kd1, f3. |
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| Dec-19-13 | | YouRang: Wow that was good -- the 31...f4!! rook sac is not a line for the faint-hearted. |
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| Dec-19-13 | | Moszkowski012273: 36...Qxd4 is just horrible |
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| Dec-19-13 | | OldTimr: Is this guy <chrisowen> mixed up or what? Did someone jossle his keyboard out of wack? |
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| Dec-19-13 | | mel gibson: I didn't get this one.
I thought 31....Ng4 but it
quickly ends up losing for black
when tested on my computer. |
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| Dec-19-13 | | morfishine: <OldTimr> Well <chrisowen> is an old-timer round these parts. Folks 'round here know well of him and his kin. If'n you ur hav'n trubl makn out wat heez say'n, don wurry nun, it'll jus take time I reckon ***** |
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| Dec-19-13 | | BraveUlysses: <OldTimr,
I grasp your bemused nettle, but ours is not to wonder why- <chrisowen>'s knight's-move musings throw a shaft of light into what is probably a genuinely enigmatic mind. |
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| Dec-20-13 | | OldTimr: BraveUlysses: <probably a genuinely enigmatic mind> Yeah, an enigma. I file 'enigmas' under ignore feature. |
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Aug-22-16
 | | Phony Benoni: Looks like a possible score error after <35...Kg6>:
click for larger viewOur score give <36.Qc8> following Olimbase, which used as its source Kashdan in "British Chess Magazine", 1933, p. 324. As noted above by several kibitzers above, this allows the immediately lethal 36...Qxe2+, as well as giving White an alternative to resignation with 38.Qc2+ Herman Steiner, in his column in the "Los Angeles Times" for July 23, 1933, gives <36.Bf1> instead. This certainly makes more sense given the game continuation, but more confirmation never hurts when going against Olimpbase. |
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Aug-23-16
| | Phony Benoni: "Brroklyn Daily Eagle", June 29, 1933, also have <36.Bf1>. It was very possibly Steiner's source |
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| Sep-19-16 | | sachistu: Hi <Phony Benoni>. Your suspicions were correct. 36.Bf1 was the move. Apart from the two sources you cite (L.A. Times and Brooklyn Daily Eagle), BCM 1933, p.324 has the move 36.Bf1. How the BCM citation found its way to the Olimpbase site is unclear. Yes, the game is in BCM (on p.324), but the score does not reflect 36.Qc8. I'll send an email to Wojtek. By the way, another version had White playing 37.Kc1. BCM gives 37.Ke1. Black had other winning moves besides 37...e3 but it was certainly good enough. |
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Kibitzing
sac: 31...f4