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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Dec-09-07
 | | Jimfromprovidence: <MAJ> <After 21.Bxf6, black should allow the B-R exchange, gaining some pawns in return:
20. Nd5 exd5 21. Bxf6 dxc4! 22. Bxd8 cxb3!> Yeah, but white played 21 exd5, which prevents your continuation. BTW… for you polyglots, I found an annotation of this game. It’s in German. http://www.herderschach.de/Training... |
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| Dec-09-07 | | MostlyAverageJoe: < Jimfromprovidence: <MAJ> <After 21.Bxf6, ...>
Yeah, but white played 21 exd5, which prevents your continuation> I was commenting on <dzechiel>'s zwischenzug idea in my post, not on the game. |
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| Jan-26-10 | | elohah: Wow!! That is a great combo! |
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Nov-21-12
 | | perfidious: <Jimfromprovidence: How can anybody say that they “saw” this combination to the end after 20 Nd5?....> One need not-nor should one try-to see 'to the end' in the main line, after Black's defence 22....Re8 instead of the losing 22....gxf6, after which his demise is swift and sure. The fact that White wins a pawn whilst keeping a good position is more than enough to bring home the point. |
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| Nov-09-15 | | Mating Net: I see that <Jimfromprovidence> pointed out several years ago that Black's 22...gxf6 is not forced in any way and that 22...Re8 would have only resulted in Black being down a pawn. The excitement over the Queen sac must, therefore, be tempered with the knowledge that it was not a forced variation. Well done by White for making the move 24.Qxh7+, but the entire combination beginning with 20.Nd5 loses some style points because it was not forced. |
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Dec-19-20
 | | Messiah: Even my grandma could have solved it, the lines are pretty obvious. You need to close out at most 5 or 6 continuations in various lines and then you are a pawn up with a very promising attack... Then the pleasant surprise explodes, Black throws away the entire game with 22...gxf6??, enabling a queensac. |
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| Dec-19-20 | | Walter Glattke: 20.Nd5 Bg4 21.Qc3 f6 22.Ne7+! 21.-e5 22.f4 many threatenings |
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| Dec-19-20 | | murkia: Some very entertaining - and instructive - kibitzing above! |
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| Dec-19-20 | | Walter Glattke: 25.-Qh3 26.Rxh3+ Kg6 2P von N, black wins |
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| Dec-19-20 | | Walter Glattke: 26.gxh3! |
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| Dec-19-20 | | murkia: This is the answer to <JohnLSpouge>'s query from 2007 about white missing the queen sacrifice. 1) -0.68 (25 ply) 25.Rh4 Rg8 26.Qc3+ f6 27.Qxf6+ Rg7 28.h3 Re8 29.b4 Ne4 30.Rxg7 Qxg7 31.Qxf5 Qa1+ 32.Kh2 Qe5+ 33.Qxe5+ Rxe5 34.f3 Nf6 35.Rd4 Kg7 36.g4 Re2+ 37.Kg3 b6 38.h4 Kg6 39.h5+ Kf7 40.Kh4 Nd7 41.Rf4+ Ke8 42.g5 Ne5 43.Re4 Rxe4+ 44.fxe4 Nxc4 |
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| Dec-19-20 | | Brenin: I got the first four moves, but not 24 Qxh7+, intending Rd4 instead. As others pointed out 13 years ago, Black's 22 ... gxf6 and 23 ... Kh8 were both blunders, so to solve the puzzle completely one needs to have dealt with the alternatives, such as 22 ... Re8. |
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| Dec-19-20 | | mel gibson: I wasn't sure.
Stockfish 12 agrees with the first ply:
20.Nd5
(20. Nd5 (♘c3-d5 e6-e5 ♖e3-f3 ♔g8-h8 ♘d5xf6 g7xf6 ♖d1-d5 ♔h8-g7 ♗b2-a3
♕c6-e8 h2-h3 ♕e8-e7 ♗a3xc5 ♖c8xc5 ♕c2-d2 ♖c5xd5 ♖f3-g3+ ♔g7-h8 ♕d2xd5 h7-h6
♕d5-d1 ♕e7-e6 ♖g3-d3 b7-b6 ♕d1-d2 ♔h8-h7 a4-a5 b6xa5 ♕d2xa5 ♖d8-a8 ♕a5-d2
♔h7-g6 ♖d3xd6 ♕e6xd6 ♕d2xd6 ♔g6-g5 ♔g1-f1 a6-a5 ♔f1-e2 ♖a8-a7) +4.80/35
176)
score for White +4.80 depth 35 |
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| Dec-19-20 | | Walter Glattke: 21.-e5 22.Nxf6+ gxf6 23.Rf3 Nd7 24.Rg3+ Kh8 25.Qd2 Rg8 26.Rxg8+ Rxg8 27.Qxd6 too many ways to win to descrive them all |
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Dec-19-20
 | | chrisowen: Task vent nd5 ghost it a clog mugs hupped it bye it answer ovid jink q mice meg gem woggle jiffy revive vulcan its help vest poisy brought ticky came it zap nd5 ghoul it a clung mig hocum devour decide tots jobs give give it nadir bribe it want nd5 buck; |
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| Dec-19-20 | | Nosnibor: Very easy for a Saturday. |
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| Dec-19-20 | | drollere: got this one. black can't immediately reply 20. .. Bxb2, preserving the Kside pawn structure, due to Ne7+ winning the Q. and after 22. Bxf6 i had assumed gxf6? only because it is a patzer move. but then the R lift is not hard to see. i had assumed 23. .. Kf8. |
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| Dec-19-20 | | RandomVisitor: On 23...Kf8 black is up a piece, and white can force the win of a rook. Black can then exchange queen for two rooks, leaving the game in a queen vs. rook and knight situation. The key to this line is 31.h4, when black (with limited forces) cannot stop the pawn from queening:
click for larger viewStockfish_20121407_x64_modern:
<51/89 12:55 +14.94 24.Qxh7 Re8 25.Rg8+ Ke7 26.Re1+ Kd8 27.Rexe8+ Qxe8 28.Rxe8+ Kxe8 29.Qg8+ Kd7 30.Qxf7+ Kd8 31.h4> Nxb3 32.h5 Nc5 33.h6 Nd7 34.c5 Kc7 |
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Dec-19-20
| | chrisowen: Decide cobra d5n no? |
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| Dec-19-20 | | RandomVisitor: After 20.Nd5, 20...e5 is playable but ultimately fails to hold back the white attacking forces:
click for larger viewStockfish_20121407_x64_modern:
<52/66 2:35:02 +5.18 20.. e5 21.Rg3 Nd7 22.Qe2> g6 23.Qf3 Kg7 24.Bc1 h5 25.Ne3 Kg8 26.Ba3 d5 27.Nxd5 h4 28.Rg4 Qe6 29.a5 Nf8 30.h3 Nh7 <52/77 2:35:02 +5.63 20...exd5 21.exd5 Qc7 22.Bxf6 Re8> 23.Rg3 g6 24.Ba1 Qd8 25.h3 b6 26.Qc3 f6 27.Rf3 Rf8 28.Re1 Rc7 29.Rfe3 Rg7 30.Qd2 Rgf7 52/57 2:35:02 +5.91 20...Nxe4 21.Bxf6 exd5 22.Bxd8 Rxd8 23.Rxd5 Nf6 24.Rd2 b6 25.h3 h6 26.Qf5 Qc7 27.Rd1 a5 28.Rde1 Kf8 29.Rd3 Qc5 30.Qf3 Qc7 51/72 2:35:02 +6.51 20...Bg5 21.h4 Bxh4 22.Rg3 Bxg3 23.Ne7+ Kh8 24.Nxc6 Rxc6 25.fxg3 e5 26.Bxe5 h6 27.Bc3 Re8 28.Qf2 Kg8 29.Rf1 Rc7 30.Qd4 Ne6 |
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| Dec-19-20 | | Hercdon: Ah yes the old Nd5 maneuver 🤗 |
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Dec-19-20
 | | moronovich: Quite an elementary win ;) |
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Dec-19-20
 | | agb2002: The first idea that comes to mind is 20.Nd5 to weaken the black castle: A) 20... exd5 21.exd5
A.1) 21... Qb6 22.Bxf6
A.1.a) 22... gxf6 23.Rg3+ Kf8 (23... Kh8 24.Qxh7+ Kxh7 25.Rd4 and mate soon) 24.Qxh7 seems to win. For example, 24... Ke8 (due to Re1 and Qh8#) 25.Re1+ Ne6 (25... Kd7 26.Qxf7#) 26.Rxe6+ and mate next. A.1.b) 22... Rd7 23.Rg3 g6 24.Re1 with the threats Qe2-e8+ and Qd2-h6. A.1.c) 22... Re8 23.Rg3 g6 (23... Ne4 24.Bd4 and 25.Rxg7+) 24.Bd4 with an extra pawn and the better position. A.2) 21... Qc(d)7 22.Bxf6 looks similar to A.1.
B) 20... Bg5 21.Rg3
B.1) 21... exd5 22.exd5 followed by 23.Rxg5 wins a pawn with the better position. B.2) 21... h6 22.Rxg5 exd5 (22... hxg5 23.Ne7+ wins) 23.Rxg7+ wins. C) 20... Nd7 21.Bxf6 exd5 (21... N(g)xf6 22.Ne7+) 22.exd5 and 23.Bxd8 wins decisive material. |
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| Dec-19-20 | | Whitehat1963: The closest I’ve ever come to outright solving a Saturday puzzle. Must have been ridiculously easy compared with most Saturday puzzles. |
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| Dec-19-20 | | Mayankk: The game sequence seems to play itself once you spot the 20 Nd5 idea and how 22 Bxf6 takes out the only piece defending the Black king, while also wrecking its pawn structure. All the moves after that are sort of obvious, 23 Rg3+ (what else), and 24 Qxh7+ is a Monday puzzle Queen sac followed by a lift of the second Rook to deliver mate. Did I consider other variations - not much. 20 e5 seems to be a stronger defence e.g. But White can still play Nxf6+ and Rg3+ I presume and the Queen is always available to join the attack at a later stage. So this is one position where you will happily play Nd5 without worrying about the side-variations since they all look rather bleak for Black positionally. |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 20.Nd5