|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Feb-18-08 | | znprdx: Black was 1st= at Strasbourg the same year ...I don't buy that a GM (rated 2596 in mid seventies) would miss this resource for a stalemate. Knowing he had a draw...he (or his opponent) may have been very short on time and was probably looking for a way to swindle a win [!?)
Plachetka vs N Mamedov, 2007
As for White: This is as bad as it gets – 2 connected passed pawns and unable to win – it is enough to make you want to give up tournament Chess – I did.... I couldn’t stand playing against opponents who didn’t know when to resign :) |
|
| Feb-18-08 | | znprdx: (69.Plachetka to play vs.Mamedov 2007) 
click for larger view |
|
| Feb-18-08 | | johnlspouge: <<notyetagm> wrote: <johnlspouge> [snip] Very informative post.> Thanks. The most hideous thing about my post, I just realized, is that I read the basic idea of winning the R+P vs. R ending (i.e., the Lucena position) more than 30 years ago, and I still retained it. No wonder I am such a bore at parties... |
|
| Feb-18-08 | | vibes43: A good puzzle for me. Due to a change in my work schedule, I don't often have opportunity to solve these early-week puzzles. |
|
| Feb-18-08 | | The beginner: The white rook is on the wrong side of the king, had it been on the Queenside instead b7, c7, d7 then it should be lucena position. where white can build the "bridge" Ie at some point he can stop the checks by moving his rook in front of the king. The position in the puzzle is called philidor. Where black he can keep checking white and white he can not leave his pawn and go for the rook, because when he does black will simply capture the pawn. |
|
| Feb-18-08 | | Fezzik: No way in the world is this just a 1-star position. The basic Philidor position is beyond many players' abilities, and this is not basic after 70...Rg6! Rh4! In fact, we reach positions that are difficult to analyse even for GMs! (see Korchnoi's "Practical Rook Endings" or Levenfish and Smyslov's "Rook Endings" to see just how difficult this position is.) Ok, Black shouldn't have resigned, and the best move is fairly obvious. But after that, the game is very difficult! |
|
| Feb-18-08 | | zb2cr: Hi <notyetagm>,
You wrote: "Again, it's easy in this context because -you- know that it's a Monday puzzle at chessgames.com." Okay, correction accepted. I have to confess my first thought on seeing this puzzle with Black to move was: "Aha! This must be a stalemate swindle, there's no way this could be a win for Black." This focused my mental energies on seeing the swindle. Yet it's also true that I am not in Plachetka's shoes at the time of this game. I have not been playing for several hours; I'm not physically and mentally tired from the long game; above all, I haven't had the crushing mental burden of of being down by 2 Pawns for the last 10 moves. I think this last factor may have been the worst. When you know that, fatally, inevitably, by being down by two Pawns, you are going to LOSE, it mentally sets you up in a state of hopelessness, and you may not see an unexpected drawing resource. |
|
| Feb-18-08 | | wals: Noting think -- Relax, detach, calm reflection on the inscrutable moves of the masters/
Now look at board
thinking Ra7 then switched
70....R x g6 71f x g6.. stalemate
PM =
Make that the inscrutable moves of Fritz 11. |
|
| Feb-18-08 | | wals: Albert Blees - Jan Plachetka, Copenhagen op 1985
Analysis by Fritz 11:
depth 26/44 time 10min 49 1. = (0.13): 70...Ra6xg6 71.Rh7-h4 Rg6-g7+ 72.Ke7-e6 Rg7-a7 73.Rh4-c4 Ra7-a6+ 74.Ke6-e7 Ra6-a7+ 75.Ke7-f6 Ra7-a6+ 76.Kf6-g5 Kg8-g7 77.Rc4-c7+ Kg7-f8 78.f5-f6 Ra6-a1 79.Kg5-g6 Ra1-g1+ 80.Kg6-f5 Rg1-f1+ 81.Kf5-e6 Rf1-e1+ 82.Ke6-d5 Re1-e8 83.Rc7-h7 Re8-e2 84.Rh7-b7 Re2-e3 85.Kd5-d6 2.  (#43): 70...Ra6-a7+ 71.Ke7-f6 Ra7-a6+ 72.Kf6-g5 Ra6-a5 73.Rh7-b7 Ra5-c5 74.Kg5-h6 Rc5xf5 75.Rb7-b8+ Rf5-f8 76.Rb8xf8+ Kg8xf8 77.Kh6-h7 Kf8-e7 78.g6-g7 Ke7-d6 79.g7-g8Q Kd6-c5 80.Qg8-g4 Kc5-c6 81.Qg4-c4+ Kc6-b6 82.Kh7-g6 Kb6-a5 83.Kg6-f5 Ka5-b6 84.Kf5-f6 Kb6-a7 85.Qc4-c5+ (, 19.02.2008)
|
|
| Feb-18-08 | | weisyschwarz: I got it in under 10 seconds. TGIM!! |
|
| Feb-18-08 | | Funicular: as i'm on holiday, i lost time reference totally, and i was convinced that it was a sunday puzzle. I saw Rxg6 instantly and though "No way!!!!" And then i saw "difficulty VERY EASY" and remembering it was monday i said "yet again, no way :P" |
|
Feb-18-08
 | | eternaloptimist: This is a prime example of why you should always examine all captures & checks on every move (if applicable). Plachetka is a GM, & he was a GM back when he played this game, yet he missed this easy move. This should serve as a lesson that you should NEVER resign unless you are POSITIVE that there is no way you can prevent losing the game. |
|
| Feb-18-08 | | Larsker: <dzechiel: This is the second position for today.> Well, there's nothing like a change of position. |
|
| Feb-18-08 | | asiduodiego: This was instructive!. Maybe the only move Black saw (and loses if makes it) is 70. ... , Ra7+?, which loses after, let's say, 71. Ke8, Rxh7? 72. gxh7, Kxh7 73. e6, and White Wins. Even if Black attempts to keep checking, White King can hide behind his pawns, and Black still loses. But, curiosly, the White King is horribly placed in this position, and of course, 70. ... , Rxg6!, achieves the draw. Interesting, as someone noted, that the Philidor Principle for drawing still applies in this position. |
|
| Feb-18-08 | | Aurora: Rxg6 is apparent. |
|
| Feb-18-08 | | xrt999: I love how people throw out "yup, its a draw. The nalimov tablebase says so." And throw in a link to boot! because no one here ever visited or has even heard of this Nalimov thingy. So, just go ahead and give me the perfect 20 or 30 move order which acheives a draw, 1 perfect move per turn, while avoiding the other 10 or 15 moves on every turn which will lead to a loss. So, you only have about 500 moves to calculate through to a depth of 15 plies, after playing a grueling 70 move game against a strong master. Let me know when you have it.
TIA
|
|
| Feb-18-08 | | znprdx: <eternaloptimist:> read my post(s)...he missed nothing....he was trying to win.... |
|
| Feb-18-08 | | jovack: wait.. black resigned?
the draw is simple and clear after white locks in black's king with Ke7
and no <xrt999> endgame tablebase is not necessary for this |
|
| Feb-18-08 | | zenpharaohs: 70 ... Rxg6
offers the stalemate. I think white has no win.
Rybka doesn't seem to agree - it sees the game as +1.68 for white; but Shredder 11 and Zappa Mexico II 64 both see the draw. Looks like a bad resignation unless it was lost on time. |
|
| Feb-18-08 | | GannonKnight: Not a Monday puzzle. |
|
| Feb-18-08 | | LPeristy: Ah, of course! Resigns was a move I just hadn't considered. Probably too challenging for a Monday puzzle. |
|
| Feb-18-08 | | notyetagm: <Fezzik: No way in the world is this just a 1-star position. The basic Philidor position is beyond many players' abilities, and this is not basic after 70...Rg6! Rh4! In fact, we reach positions that are difficult to analyse even for GMs! (see Korchnoi's "Practical Rook Endings" or Levenfish and Smyslov's "Rook Endings" to see just how difficult this position is.) Ok, Black shouldn't have resigned, and the best move is fairly obvious. But after that, the game is very difficult!> Yes, that was my point exactly.
The draw after 70 ... ♖a6xg6! 71 f5x♖g6 <stalemate> was clear but it was not obvious to me that the game was drawn if White simply refrains from capturing the Black g6-rook, with your suggested 71 ♖h7-h4!, for example. |
|
| Feb-19-08 | | parmetd: i'm confused... white won? some error here either its white move so f6 can be played or its a draw cause black plays Rxg6... |
|
| Feb-19-08 | | notyetagm: <parmetd: i'm confused... white won? some error here either its white move so f6 can be played or its a draw cause black plays Rxg6...> Yes, White won. Black missed that he could draw with 70 ... ♖a6xg6! and resigned a drawn position. |
|
| Feb-19-08 | | kevin86: Chess blindness at its finest (or worst)!. Black resigns instead of seeing and playing the very useful 70...♖xg6!!. White could still win,but the lucena position is weakest against the f-pawn (only one rare position can gain a win). |
|
 |
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 37.Bxg5