< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Jul-06-13|| ||Blunderdome: I played 24. h4. I think it's good enough to win, but the game line is stronger.|
|Jul-06-13|| ||mig55: Found the first two white moves, think thats good enough.|
|Jul-06-13|| ||M.Hassan: "Very Difficult"
White to play 24.?
White is a pawn down.
Bishop can take the Rook on e5 but itself will be captured. White can make a Knight move to get the Rook more efficiently
forking Queen and Rook
White is now stronger and has a passed pawn
Not quite as the game line.
|Jul-06-13|| ||diagonalley: 24. BxR ... sorry guys, but that's what happens at my level|
|Jul-06-13|| ||Blunderdome: <ruzon> I assumed 24.h4 would be met by 24...Rxe2.|
|Jul-06-13|| ||agb2002: White is a pawn down.
The obvious move is 24.Bxe5 but White can take advantage of the risky position of the black queen to win the exchange and a pawn with 24.Nf4 Qg4 25.Nxg6:
A) 25... fxg6 26.f4 and 27.fxe5 + - [R vs N].
B) 25... Re8 26.Nxf8 and 27.Rxc5 wins a pawn, the bishop pair and keeps a considerable positional advantage.
|Jul-06-13|| ||davedude9: Was able to work most of this out (for a change). But why resign at move 30? If it's just the rook pawn, can't Black hold on with Kg7 and Rh8?|
|Jul-06-13|| ||Doniez: I found Nf4, and I found it quickly! It's only the first move but is a great result for me today.|
|Jul-06-13|| ||M.Hassan: <davedude9:Was able to work most of this out (for a change). But why resign at move 30? If it's just the rook pawn, can't Black hold on with Kg7 and Rh8>|
That's what I wondered too. White is only one point up. May be Black resigned because White has the Bishop pair which is more effective in the endgame than Bishop+Knight and I'm only assuming this.
|Jul-06-13|| ||bubuli55: < davedude9 > there is mate with 30...Kg7|
31.Bf5 Re7 32.Bxh6+ Kg8 33.Rg5+ Kh8 34.Bg7+ Kg8 35.Bf6+ Kf8 36.Bh7 ~ Rg8#
|Jul-06-13|| ||TomOhio: <bubuli55: < davedude9 > there is mate with 30...Kg7|
31.Bf5 Re7 32.Bxh6+ Kg8 33.Rg5+ Kh8 34.Bg7+ Kg8 35.Bf6+ Kf8 36.Bh7 ~ Rg8#>
What about 32.... Kf6.
|Jul-06-13|| ||bubuli55: Sir. I can not help you. Sorry|
|Jul-06-13|| ||Willber G: I really don't understand this; why not just win the exchange with 24.Bxe5 and take it from there?|
|Jul-06-13|| ||James D Flynn: I had Black is a pawn up but His Q is rather awkwardly placed in h5. 24.Bxe5 wins the exchange but centralizes Black Q
24.Nf4 Qg5 25.Nxg6 fxg6 26.f4 Qh5 27.fxe5(White has won back his pawn and the exchange. His passed pawn on e5 can be supported , and Black g6 pawn is a target. Current threat Qf6 supporting the e pawn advance, threatening to take on g6, and threatening to win 2 pieces for a R by Rxd7 followed by Qe6+) Be7(if Bg7 28.Rxc5 wins a pawn).
and although White has much the better endgane I thought there must be something more decisive. I am equally puzzled by the resignation.|
|Jul-06-13|| ||whiteshark: <diagonalley: 24. BxR ... sorry guys, but that's what happens at my level> And not so great minds think alike, too. ;D|
|Jul-06-13|| ||Abdel Irada: <<> An enticing clearance? <>>|
An interesting situation. White *could* just win the exchange with 24. Bxe5, but this would leave Black with a bishop and pawn for a rook, a centralized queen and pressure on b2 as well as the dark squares generally. The amount of counterplay suffices to make one think twice and search for something better.
Let's try kicking the queen.
<<> 24. Nf4, Qg5 >
This is the queen's only retreat, but it has put her in harm's way.
<<> 25. Nxg6! ... >
This is the real key, for it clears an important square with gain of time. If Black acquiesces in taking the knight (which cannot be done with the queen, thanks to the cleric lurking on b1), then White will continue with 26. f4, forking queen and rook. After any response to this fork, White will emerge with a full exchange, a strong pawn on e5, and threats against the black kingside.
<<> 25. ...R5e8
26. Nxf8 >
After any recapture on f8, White will pick off the c5 pawn with gain of tempo. It's not clear that this is winning, either, but there is no question that White has all the winning chances.
Now to see if Moiseenko found something more convincing.
|Jul-06-13|| ||paulalbert: Amazingly I found the 24 Nf4 Qg5 25 Nxg6 as the best way to go after spending a lot of time unsuccessfully trying to come up with something that outright trapped the black Q. I noticed the awkward position of black's Q and the pressure on the g6 square which eventually led me in the right direction, but I certainly didn't calculate to the final game position. This is a good example of Lasker's advice: "See a good move?: wait!, look for a better one." Frankly in a real game of my own I would have just taken the exchange with Bxe5, but with a P and 2Bs black has lots of fight left. Interesting that in the final game position white is now a pawn up with a much better position, but did not win the exchange. Solving a puzzle when you know something is there is not the same thing as seeing it when nobody tells you something in fact is there, so I don't put too much weight on occasionally coming up with the right moves on a very difficult puzzle, but it helps broaden one's own chess perspective when playing, so very instructive.|
|Jul-06-13|| ||TimothyLucasJaeger: Got close. I went with 22 ♘f4 ♕g5 23 ♘d3 but got lost in the complications, failing to see 23 ... ♖ee8 ♗h4 ♕e3. I wanted to capture on c5 with the knight with a discovered attack on the queen.|
Pretty happy to get this close on a saturday.
|Jul-06-13|| ||DcGentle: Ending the game with checkmate is not often seen on tournament level, because players resign, if further play is hopeless for them. Nevertheless, if checkmate is far away like in this case, realization can be interesting.|
Let's see two lines:
30... Kg7 31. Bf5 Rh8 32. Bc7 Rhe8 33. Bxb6 Rxb6 34. Rxd7
Re1+ 35. Kf2 Ra1 36. Kg3 Rxa2 37. Be4 Raxb2 38. Rf5 Rg6+ 39.
Kf4 Rf6 40. Bd5 Rd2 41. g4 a5 42. Rxf7+ Rxf7 43. Rxf7+ Kg6
44. Rd7 Rxh2 45. Rxb7 Kf6 46. Rf7+ Kg6 47. Ra7 a4 48. Rxa4
Rd2 49. Ra6+ Kg7 50. Rd6 Rc2 51. Be4 Rc7 52. Rg6+ Kf7 53.
Rxh6 Rc4 54. g5 Rc5 55. g6+ Ke6 56. Rh1 Rc4 57. g7 Kf7 58.
Rg1 Rc8 59. Bd5+ Kf6 60. g8=Q Rxg8 61. Rxg8 Ke7 62. Ke5 Kd7
63. Rg7+ Kc8 64. Kd6 Kb8 65. f4 Kc8 66. Rg8#
And another one:
30... Kg7 31. Bf5 Rh8 32. Bc7 Bc8 33. Bxe6 Bxe6 34. Bxb6
axb6 35. Rb5 Ra8 36. a3 Rc8 37. Rxb6 Rc7 38. a4 Kf6 39. a5
Ke7 40. b4 Bb3 41. Rd2 Be6 42. b5 Kf6 43. Kf2 Kf5 44. Kg3
Ke5 45. a6 bxa6 46. bxa6 Ra7 47. Rb5+ Kf6 48. Rd6 Ra8 49.
Kf4 Kg7 50. Rb7 Bc8 51. Rbb6 h5 52. Kg5 h4 53. Rdc6 h3 54.
g4 Bxa6 55. Rxa6 Rd8 56. f4 Rd5+ 57. f5 Rd7 58. f6+ Kh7 59.
Ra5 Rd8 60. Kh4 Kh6 61. Rg5 Rd5 62. Rxd5 Kg6 63. Rg5+ Kh6
64. Rc7 Kh7 65. Rg7+ Kh6 66. g5#
The second line especially reveals some patterns demonstrating how to win a won game: The point is restricting the opponent's forces, and especially the enemy king. Of course this is easier with material superiority. Restriction here means binding the defending pieces on their tasks of defense more and more tightly, in the second line this eventuated in the following situation after move 54 of White :
click for larger view
Black to move is in Zugzwang here. So this means, Black is forced to help White and actually it doesn't matter much whether Black gives material quality by 54... Bxa6 or does something else. Of course Black can only delay checkmate, but this was clear after move 30.
|Jul-06-13|| ||kevin86: I was looking for a queen trap;the second move was the real surprise.|
|Jul-06-13|| ||Everyone: Couple of drinks and <Everyone> should see clearly.|
|Jul-06-13|| ||anandrulez: Yep ^^|
|Jul-06-13|| ||perfidious: I'll split a few drinks with <Everyone>, but no-one else.|
|Jul-06-13|| ||radtop: Was the pawn on e5 poisoned? Should black had played 23...bf5?|
|Jul-06-13|| ||Shams: <radtop> 23...Bf5 24.Nf4 Qg5 25.h4 Qe7 26.Bxf5 gxf5 27.Nh5 looks bad for Black.|
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