|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Aug-01-13 | | Marmot PFL: Kramnik has this all figured out. Positional sacs with lasting initiative are so had to defend against. Probably the king was just as safe on g8 as anywhere and could go to h7 where it still left room for the rooks in case white plays g5. All that is easy to say after the fact. after building up the position comes 29 Nd5 which black has to take and there is no defense now to Ng7+ except Ne5. |
|
| Aug-01-13 | | dekko: kramnik is playing chess in dortmund!...every game is a blast..it was actually the defendin black queen that got mated!! |
|
| Aug-01-13 | | Ed Frank: Kramnik is definitely back in form. This is killer playing. |
|
| Aug-01-13 | | csmath: Very confident play by Kramnik. Is this his preparation or OTB. It looks very powerful.
On the other hand Fridman played rather panicky here. 25. ... h6 make sense but
26. ...Kf8? and 27. ... Ke8?! looks just like wasting precious tempi in a rather precarious position. 28. Qf8? is just a complete blowout.
Of course it is not exactly easy to spot
29. Nd5!
but then again ... this is a super-tournament, isn't it. Complete anihilation, powerful game by Kramnik. |
|
| Aug-01-13 | | kellmano: I like the way he keeps Nd5 in hand until it is most useful. Must have been horrible to play from Fridman from move 18. Of course, Krammers was lucky he wasn't playing <csmath> |
|
| Aug-01-13 | | csmath: It is a powerful display by Kramnik and a pretty game overall but ... a better defender than Fridman would probably last a little longer. |
|
| Aug-01-13 | | whithaw: Is it true that the engines didn't like the attack? Anyone have access to analysis? |
|
| Aug-01-13 | | csmath: Basically the engine (Houdini) plays the same way strong defender would play
- re-organize defence and play countergame. This is of course easy to say. 25. ... h6 is still okay.
Kramnik does play all out with
26. h4
and the move makes sense in that regard.
27. ... Kf8? is a waste of tempo and black really has no time for that. He needs to open up the other side with 27. ... b5
which is the move that force white to act with c3 knight else black will play b4 and open a-file. 28. Ne4 Nxe4
29. Qxe4 e5
In this position white still have an attack but he will have to re-organize that 30. Ng3 Rab8
31. Qe6 (counterattack on g4) Nf5
32. Kh8 (opening g-file for rook) bxc4
33. bxc4 Rb8
and black now has a countergame. How can white proceed with attack I do not know but this is not going to be as easy as in the game. I think Kramnik's attack is with solid compensation and there is a lot to be played here with a difficult defence. 28. |
|
| Aug-01-13 | | csmath: It is a great game by Kramnik but the opponent did not offer great resistance. Beautiful game nevertheless. Ending combination is very pretty. |
|
| Aug-01-13 | | badest: <whithaw: Is it true that the engines didn't like the attack? Anyone have access to analysis?> Check chess-bomb, but basically cs-math outlines the resistance above (after h4). With best play white would be struggling for the draw after move 26. |
|
| Aug-01-13 | | csmath: The outcome of Houdini analysis in short is this:
1. If after 33 moves as above white proceed with rook to f5 (sacrificing bishop, it seems the white would lose. 2. If he proceeds with Ba5 and then with Rf5 white will have to force perpetual. 3. If white plays Be1 (the most ambitious) then black plays Reb8 and then white will be forced to play similar as in #2, meaning draw likely. So with this brief superficial analysis this looks like a draw with the best play for both. |
|
| Aug-01-13 | | Hesam7: <csmath: 27. ... b5
which is the move that force white to act with c3 knight else black will play b4 and open a-file. 28. Ne4 Nxe4
29. Qxe4 e5
In this position white still have an attack but he will have to re-organize that 30. Ng3 Rab8
31. Qe6 (counterattack on g4) Nf5
32. Kh8 (opening g-file for rook) bxc4
33. bxc4 Rb8
and black now has a countergame. How can white proceed with attack I do not know but this is not going to be as easy as in the game. I think Kramnik's attack is with solid compensation and there is a lot to be played here with a difficult defence.> I disagree, 26...b5! is the best move but White is not forced to play 27 Ne4?!. White could get the Knight out of harms way without helping Black's defense via the Knight exchange, so 27 Ne2, 27 Nd1 or even 27 Nb1 are all playable, (and my engine likes 27 Rf4). And given his comment on the official site Kramnik's choice would have been 27 Ne2 (I added the diagram): <Black is already worse. With 26...b5 27 Ne2 Ne8 28 Neg3 
click for larger viewhe could possibly hold.>
Another idea is not to move the Knight at all: 27 cb5 ab5 28 Nb5 Nb5 (28...Ne8 is possible but then after 29 Nc3 White has just won a pawn and returns to his attack) 29 g5! fg5 (forced) 30 Rf6 c4 (forced) 31 hg5 Kf8 (forced) 32 gh6 Qc5 
click for larger viewWhite has two options, either to force a draw or head for a bizarre and utterly unclear ending with 4 pawns for a Rook: <<A> The Draw:> 33 Re6 fe6 34 Bf6 Qe3 35 Kh2 Qh6 36 Bg7 Qg7 37 Qg7 Ke8 38 dc4 
click for larger viewAnd no matter where the Knight goes White will get perpetual check. <<B> Bizzarre Ending:> 33 Qg7 Ke7 34 Qf7 Kd6 35 Qe6 Kc7 36 Rf5 Qc6 37 Qc4 Qc4 38 dc4 Nd6 (all forced) 39 Rf2! Ne4 40 Rf4 
click for larger viewDespite my engine's evaluations (~ -1.00) this ending seems very unclear to me. |
|
| Aug-01-13 | | csmath: Hesam, I did not say white is forced to move knight on e4. That was my choice. But I thought the knight has to be moved. Now, you are right about 27. cxb5. I did not even consider that move and the reason is that opens too many files to black rooks. I see there is some real wild draw after that as well. I would not play 27. cxb5 for positional reason (again, I do not see any reason to open files to black rooks unless I am forced to do that). Sometimes humanly I simply decide, right or wrong, that some moves are not to be made regardless of the engine. It is funny that my best tactical games (in my past) were the ones where I did not calculate too much but simply followed some intuition. But yes, you are right even 27. cxb5 is possible. |
|
| Aug-01-13 | | csmath: I understand Kramnik's desire not to exchange any knight. However if exchanged on e4 it would have been exchanged for a strong defensive black knight on d6 so I do not see a problem about that. But in either case I guess the agreement is that this game should be going into a draw after 25 moves with the best play of both sides. |
|
| Aug-02-13 | | Hesam7: <csmath: I understand Kramnik's desire not to exchange any knight. However if exchanged on e4 it would have been exchanged for a strong defensive black knight on d6 so I do not see a problem about that.> That is a valid point but when I criticized 27 Ne4?! I was mostly going by the general rule that exchanges mostly favor the defending side. |
|
| Aug-02-13 | | csmath: Correct but keep in mind that Kramnik's attack needs to be prompt here. I do not think he has time for Nb1, that is not a real option for me. Ne2 makes sense, it is at cost of speed. Black's main objective is to create countergame on queenside as fast as possible thus opening files as fast as possible. If he can bring at least one rook on 2nd or 3rd rank he will not lose the game. ANY TIME you get so mercilessly attacked the first "rule" of the game is to see whether there is any possibility of countergame and immediately pursue that. The offence is the best defence. My experience teaches me that attackers nearly always get surprised when counterattacked. So I think the speed is here of essence. Again, Ne2 is a good move, I can see that. Nb1 ... I would not consider that move, I have a gut feeling it is simply too slow for my taste. |
|
| Aug-02-13 | | csmath: By the way, Kramnik plays a heck of a lot more attractive chess now than when he was a WC. His chess in 2000-2005 period was really arthritic. I am glad to see this seriously positive change. I'd say this is one of the two best games in Dortmund, in line with Adams win against Caruana and certainly more "flashy" than that. It could be easily declared the best game in Dortmund though I would vote for Mickey. |
|
| Aug-02-13 | | Hesam7: <csmath: Correct but keep in mind that Kramnik's attack needs to be prompt here. I do not think he has time for Nb1, that is not a real option for me. Ne2 makes sense, it is at cost of speed.> 26...b5 27 Nb1!? is based on me playing around with the engine, it is counterintuitive but it seems to work, for example 27...bc4 28 Nf6 Nf6 29 Bf6 Qf8 (29...Qb7 might be better) 30 dc4 Nc4 31 Qe4 Nd6 32 Qf4 
click for larger viewAnd this is where you see the idea of 27 Nb1, with the Bishop on f6 the b1-Knight gets back in the game, for example: 32...Rd7 33 Nc3 Ne8 34 Be5 f5 (otherwise Ne4) 35 gf5 ef5 (35...Qf5?? 36 Qg3  ) 36 e4 Nd6 37 ef5 Kh7 
click for larger viewWhite has enough compensation, he can even go for this crazy line: 38 f6!? Rad8 39 Ne4 Qg8 40 Ng5 hg5 41 hg5 
click for larger viewIt seems that White has enough to draw here as well. |
|
| Aug-02-13 | | Hesam7: I wish Kramnik had said something about 26...b5 27 Ne2 bc4 at this point I opted for 28 Bf6, a move engines don't like at all, and after 28...Nf6 29 Nf6 Kf8 30 g5 Qb7 31 Qg4 cd3 32 Nf4 Nf5 33 gh6 Ke7 we arrive at a chaotic position
click for larger view34 h7 (34 Qg5 should be considered) 34...d2 35 N4d5 Kd6 
click for larger viewHere White can try a number of moves but it seems with 36 Rd1 he can force a perpetual. The position after 26...b5 is simply fascinating, I am not a strong enough player and my hardware is pretty old so I think I will stop here and hope someone with more resources looks into it. |
|
| Aug-02-13 | | Jamboree: Kramnik dispenses with these German 2600s like they were C-players players at a simul. From our vantage point down here in sub-2300 territory, all these guys look like towering giants. But every now and then Kramnik (and a few others like Carlsen and Aronian) demonstrate what a huge gulf there is between a true 2800 and a "run-of-the-mill" 2600 player. Fridman could probably beat someone like me with his eyes closed, and here Kramnik comes along and casually sweeps Fridman off the board as if he was goofing around in a 3-minute blitz game against a beginner. And then of course if someone pitted Kramnik against the latest Houdini on overclocked hardware, Kramnik would be crushed like a bug. Kind of scary, actually. |
|
| Aug-02-13 | | whithaw: Yes, Jamboree, I agree. It is scary that these programs can squash Kramnik, Carlsen, Aronian, etc...and this is why there is great concern in the chess community with regard to computer aided cheating. People have already been caught cheating in important tournaments, both professionals and amateurs... Cheating at chess online, using powerful engines, is already very common... It will be a more and more significant issue as technology improves. |
|
| Aug-02-13 | | Tigranny: Why not 32...Qe7? |
|
| Aug-02-13 | | fgh: <Tigranny>: 33. Nf6 and the queen is lost. |
|
| Aug-04-13 | | apanadsky: ive been following this Kramnik new system of opening i like it. great |
|
Feb-05-15
 | | Eggman: 34.Qa1 is quite pretty, especially since it is necessary, since after 34.Qb2 Black can fight on for a bit with 34...Nxc4 and 35...Qd6. Not often that moving the queen backward into one's own corner is the winning move, especially in a middlegame. Very nice! |
|
 |
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 21.Rxf6
