< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 8 OF 8 ·
|May-24-15|| ||Everett: <Domdaniel> Only a willful subversion of the meaning of my post would allow for such a glib and insincere response.|
Men and women create <human> life together. Most of us endeavor to protect the life we create together. Because there are dangers out there, we need to know how to defend ourselves. In fact, self-preservation is likely a big part of what makes us have a profound capacity to understand and commit violence.
<on balance, I suspect the killers have a majority>
The self-family-tribe-culture-nation preservationists have the majority. Your statement is sophomoric and dramatic in equal measure. Why do you think people <kill>?
Since you seem fond of pacifism and evolution, could you share with us a higher order organism that practices pacifism?
|May-24-15|| ||Domdaniel: <Everett> 'Fond' isn't the word: pacifism seems like a rational response to a crazy world - as long as one is fortunate enough to live in a place where pacifism is feasible. It may not be viable in Syria, Myanmar, or Texas, for example.|
As for evolution, there's no argument worth debating. One doesn't have to be fond of it: it simply is the case, and anyone who doubts this is delusional or ill-informed. The irony is that in most parts of the civilized world evolution is quite compatible with religious belief -- the notion that they're in conflict is mainly an American phenomenon. And one that embarrasses thinking Americans.
"Keep violence in the mind where it belongs". -- BW Aldiss
|May-24-15|| ||paavoh: <...higher order organism that practices pacifism?> Bonobos come to mind; violence among them is not unknown, but their first reaction to conflicts is a peaceful offer of caresses and sex to relieve the tensions.|
|May-24-15|| ||Everett: I agree with your sentiment that pacifism is an appropriate response, but it is only "rational" in theory at best. Mind you, peace-seeking and pacifism are two different things. Most of us are certainly the former, even in America.|
Where exactly is pacifism feasible? How many nations on this planet have a military, and how many municipalities have some sort of police force? How can we speak of pacifism with these structures in place, keeping the peace and <violently> stopping others from committing crimes?
It seems that many feel if they outsource their security needs to a police force, they can more easily espouse pacifism. But I imagine if someone was grabbing a loved one and shoving them into a van, some other behavior will come forth.
|May-25-15|| ||Everett: <paavoh> as they say, exceptions make the rule. And until I find women who are willing to have sex freely on a regular basis in a healthful, poly amorous way, I'd say we are not quite like bonobos. No doubt, sexual relations that create bonds with "ownership" qualities can create violent situations.|
In any case, bonobos seem not immune to violent behavior http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/sci...
Inject scarcity and insecurity in any culture, and let's see what happens. I'm guessing it will not be pacifist.
|May-25-15|| ||Everett: <As for evolution, there's no argument worth debating. One doesn't have to be fond of it: it simply is the case, and anyone who doubts this is delusional or ill-informed. The irony is that in most parts of the civilized world evolution is quite compatible with religious belief -- the notion that they're in conflict is mainly an American phenomenon. And one that embarrasses thinking Americans.>|
Yes, there is no argument worth debating. None of these is an example of <pacifism>.
|May-25-15|| ||OhioChessFan: <Dom: As for evolution, there's no argument worth debating. One doesn't have to be fond of it: it simply is the case, and anyone who doubts this is delusional or ill-informed. >|
I accept that you sincerely believe that statement.
<And one that embarrasses thinking Americans.>
I rather think my track record on this site would qualify me in most people's eyes as thinking.
|May-26-15|| ||Domdaniel: On the subject of pacifism, I like the story about the gay writer Lytton Strachey. During the First World War, he was interrogated by a military court about his pacifist beliefs. One officer angrily asked him "What would you do if you saw a German soldier attempting to rape your sister?"|
"I would interpose my body", said Strachey.
|May-26-15|| ||Domdaniel: NB. The quote about interposing is of course an essential piece of chess terminology - and thus it cannot be said to be off-topic.|
On the other hand, Strachey apparently had mixed feelings about any such interposition. One trusts that an interposed Bishop or Knight suffers no such ambiguity.
Plus, of course, the word 'gay' meaning homosexual was not current in 1915 - but some of the words then used are now offensive.
As a side note, according to Jack Black in "You Can't Win" -- a well-written and insightful yarn about burglars, gamblers, yeggs and hobos at the start of the 20th century -- a "gay dog" was a derogatory term for a criminal looked down on by other crims. No sexual orientation was implied.
|May-26-15|| ||perfidious: One man's interposition is another man's interference.|
|May-26-15|| ||Domdaniel: <Ohio> Yes, of course, you're thinking. Intelligent, too. The thinking person's thinking person, if I may be so bold.|
Nor, as a thinking person, are you embarrassed by the topic under discussion. I should perhaps have said that *some* thinking Americans find the subject embarrassing. And, as you know, there are those - emphatically not me - who regard the very idea of a 'thinking American' as a contradiction in terms. A sort of Oxy-moron-acetylene torch for, eh, lighting the flames of hell.
So if we dispose of 'thinking' and 'embarrassment' there's just one angle left: Americans. Is it possible - no offence intended - that you're not really an American? Could you be a mole or a foreign agent? Or maybe Ohio seceded without telling anyone?
Incidentally, I now seem to live in one of the most 'liberal' states on Earth. Last week, Ireland was the first country anywhere to put the issue of gay marriage before the people, in the form of a referendum and constitutional amendment -- which was passed by a large majority. Other countries which enacted such laws just did the deed in parliament - this way is more democratic.
It's shocking, in a sense, given how conservative the country was a generation ago. Things have changed.
Ironically, the only strongly anti-amendment voter I met in recent days was a taxi driver, an immigrant from Nigeria ... and he intended to vote 'no' because he said it was the word of God. I found myself nostalgic for old-style Christians, both Catholic and Protestant, who were rather more subtle. I might not have often agreed with them, but they were thinking people too. I respect people like that, who work through their own beliefs.
|May-26-15|| ||Domdaniel: <perf> - <One man's interposition is another man's interference.>|
And one woman's ceiling wax is another woman's floor polish...
BTW, does anyone remember <Sealing Wax> which lawyers used to melt and dribble onto important documents.
Among many other significant sights, the internet is doing away with dribbling lawyers. Though drooling judges can still be found if you know where to look.
|May-27-15|| ||OhioChessFan: <dom: So if we dispose of 'thinking' and 'embarrassment' there's just one angle left: Americans. Is it possible - no offence intended - that you're not really an American?>|
Well, I despise the Kardashians and American Idol and cell phones, so maybe I'm adopted. Yes, it's a rather lowbrow country, incredibly unthinking for the availability of things to think about.
< Earth. Last week, Ireland was the first country anywhere to put the issue of gay marriage before the people, in the form of a referendum and constitutional amendment -- which was passed by a large majority. Other countries which enacted such laws just did the deed in parliament - this way is more democratic.
It's shocking, in a sense, given how conservative the country was a generation ago. Things have changed.>
Stunning. I think it reflects incredible hubris on the part of today's generation, but there you go.
|May-27-15|| ||Everett: <premium
memberMay-26-15 Domdaniel: On the subject of pacifism, I like the story about the gay writer Lytton Strachey. During the First World War, he was interrogated by a military court about his pacifist beliefs. One officer angrily asked him "What would you do if you saw a German soldier attempting to rape your sister?"
"I would interpose my body", said Strachey.>
That's a very nice story. And tell us what happens next... http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/0...
|Jun-03-15|| ||Domdaniel: There are no atheists in Fox Holes...|
|Jun-05-15|| ||Everett: There is no reality in pacifism, evolutionary or otherwise.|
|Jun-06-15|| ||Domdaniel: <Everett> - <There is no reality in pacifism, evolutionary or otherwise.>|
Yes, that's mostly plausible - that 'otherwise' is a tad too all-embracing for me, but the position generally holds.
Of course, 'reality' is not the kind of quality which usually gets attached to human belief systems such as pacifism. Is there a 9th dimension in Mormonism? Is there quiddity in capitalism? Is there balm in Gilead?
And why bring in evolution? Unless you think that linking two concepts which you happen to disbelieve in will somehow jointly undermine both?
Isn't that <sympathetic magic>? Or just magical thinking without the thought?
Remember that most leading world religions are *not* opposed to evolution, any more than they are to other scientific ideas. Opposition, such as it is, tends to come from conservative American pastors who have been persuaded that Neo-Darwinism is at odds with the Old Testament.
It isn't. But a universe without a creator is one plausible interpretation of what we now know. As, of course, is a universe *with* a creator.
|Jun-06-15|| ||Domdaniel: To maintain a modicum of on-topic-ness, some anagrams of Grischuk-Caruana:|
Arraign USA, Chuck.
Ask anarchic guru.
Saurian crack hug.
Curing hack's aura.
A rag chunks Curia.
Gun us, archaic Ark.
Crack Hug as a ruin.
The great Werner Hug, Swiss specialist in the Winawer French and SWARM System, of course. For the uninitiated, the SWARM is the Swiss-Armenian variation, 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e5 c5 5.a3 Ba5 ... often with 6.b4.
I do chess quite often, actually. Just ask around.
|Jun-07-15|| ||Shoukhath007: Amazing game ever.|
|Jun-07-15|| ||Shoukhath007: Watch this game on youtube.|
|Jun-07-15|| ||Everett: <And why bring in evolution? Unless you think that linking two concepts which you happen to disbelieve in will somehow jointly undermine both?>|
Why do you insist on pretending to know what my belief system is, on evolution, or religion? I have no idea why you keep harping on world religions. No idea why you are talking about any "creator."
My entire point about bringing up evolution, or any other creature on this planet, is because they had to defend themselves in some way, shape and form.
You are throwing things into this argument that have no bearing on my point, which, originally, was basically women aren't the only gender which create life (of course), and that the protection of that <human> life is what brings about violence. Paradoxical, but it makes perfect sense.
All the religious blathering is your own hang-up.
|Jun-07-15|| ||Everett: And it is you who brought up both pacifism <"try pacifism"> and evolution <"most of our ancestors were neither men nor women. A majority weren't even mammals.">|
If you honestly re-read this thread <domdaniel> you'll see just how confused and off your responses are. It's as if you don't even know what you are trying to argue against.
I also think you got side-tracked by other posters. I imagine the rest is from a conversation going on in your own head.
|Jun-07-15|| ||OhioChessFan: Acacia Rug Shrunk|
|Jun-10-15|| ||Domdaniel: <Everett> We seem to attach radically different meanings to a number of terms. It would take a long time to define them, and - believe it or not - I'm not given to 'arguments'.|
|Jun-10-15|| ||Everett: <domdaniel> I believe it, since you didn't seem to take the time to understand my stated view or properly explicate your own. I've enjoyed your posts when they come to chess, so I'll stick to reading those.|
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