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Magnus Carlsen vs Vincent Keymer
FIDE World Cup (2023), Baku AZE, rd 4, Aug-10
Spanish Game: Morphy Defense. Anderssen Variation (C77)  ·  1-0

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White to move.
ANALYSIS [x]
1-0

rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Aug-10-23
Premium Chessgames Member
  Check It Out: Oh, that's good. Keymer notices Magnus's reaction and is not sure what's going on. He even looks over like, what's he looking at?!
Aug-10-23  ndg2: That double blunder move 16/17 reminds me a bit of Carlsen vs Anand, 2014
Aug-10-23
Premium Chessgames Member
  tamar: 17...Nxe4 and a draw offer would have tilted Magnus for the rest of the year.
Aug-10-23  Yuri Stremel: 17...Nxe4 seems to be very straightforward. I wonder what they missed. Is it so unexpected?
Aug-10-23
Premium Chessgames Member
  tamar: Magnus in the interview after said he only noticed 17...Nxe4 when he played 16 a3 because Keymer recoiled slightly. He examined the position and saw the crushing 17...Nxe4 immediately. He left the board and went to the bathroom, and was shocked when Keymer played 17...Qxc3 after the bishop knight exchange.

Why Keymer recoiled is not clear, or did Magnus just imagine it?

Aug-10-23
Premium Chessgames Member
  PeterLalic: <MissScarlett: <Magnus Carlsen's reaction to escaping 17...Nxe4!!> https://twitter.com/olimpiuurcan/st...>

Thanks for the link. That is very funny! I think that 17...Nxe4!! is too counter-intuitive for even most Grandmasters.

18.fxe4 Qxe4 forks the bishop and knight. However, they can normally be saved, especially in such proximity to each other.

This is a good example of why chess is so difficult.

Aug-10-23
Premium Chessgames Member
  tamar: In the last key moment, Magnus was unsure if 53...Bd5 wins for White, but was sure Keymer had to try it.

Leko and Naroditzsky pretty easily were able to find the win for White and I wondered why Magnus could not see it, but part of Stockfish winning sequence includes this fortress position after 65...Rg5+


click for larger view

1) +12.63 (37 ply) 54.Rxd5 cxd5 55.Kxd5 Ra2 56.c5 Kf7 57.Kc4 Ke7 58.Kb5 Rc2 59.Bb4 Kd8 60.a6 Kc7 61.c6 Rxc6 62.a7 Rb6+ 63.Ka5 Rxb4 64.a8=Q Rg4 65.Qe8 Rg5+ 66.Kb4 Kd6 67.Kc4 Rg4+ 68.Kd3 Rg2 69.Ke3 Rg1 70.Kf3 Rf1+ 71.Kg2 Rf6 72.Qg8 Ke5 73.Qxg7 Kf5 74.Qd7+ Ke5 75.Qe7+ Re6 76.Qg7+ Rf6 77.Kg3 Ke6 78.Kg4 Ke5 79.Qe7+ Re6 80.Qc5+ Kf6 81.Qf8+ Ke5 82.Qf4+ Kd5 83.Kf5 Rb6 84.Qc7

Hard for any human to evaluate from afar, but the engine with a little time sees mate.

Aug-11-23  Saniyat24: Carlsen comes back...!
https://youtu.be/j1gBD11MJFY
Aug-11-23
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <ndg2: That double blunder move 16/17 reminds me a bit of Carlsen vs Anand, 2014>

Also Karjakin not playing 20....Nxf2+ in Carlsen vs Karjakin, 2016. Not a winning move, probably would have led to a draw, but it would have brought SK a giant step closer to winning the title.

Carlsen vs Karjakin, 2016 (kibitz #1263)

Aug-11-23
Premium Chessgames Member
  chancho: 16.Bxf6 getting rid of the Knight seems right...

Anything wrong with it?

Aug-11-23  Granny O Doul: <18.fxe4 Qxe4 forks the bishop and knight. However, they can normally be saved, especially in such proximity to each other.>

Also the fact that a queen exchange is in the air seems to make such a trick even less likely to work. At least, I think it would to me.

As for 16. Bxf6, I wouldn't like to give up that bishop. I think it would leave Black's queen too comfortable. I'd probably choose 16. Kb1.

Aug-11-23  Chessius the Messius: 17... Nxe4 18. Qxe5 Rxe5 19. Be1 Nf6 20. Nf4 Rf5 21. Bd2 Nd5 22. Nxd5 cxd5 23. Be1 Kf8 24. b3 a5 25. a4 c5

Don't see a win here for Black.

Aug-11-23
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: < Chessius the Messius: 17... Nxe4 18. Qxe5 Rxe5 19. Be1 Nf6 20. Nf4 Rf5 21. Bd2 Nd5 22. Nxd5 cxd5 23. Be1 Kf8 24. b3 a5 25. a4 c5 Don't see a win here for Black.>

Certainly not an easy one. But white is a pawn down in a quiet near-ending where a draw is equivalent to a loss.

Aug-12-23  dehanne: Classical chess is so stressful and boring, you end up missing fairly simple tactics.
Aug-15-23  Chessius the Messius: <keypusher>

"Not easy" is an understatement; I should not have challenged the engines, but I did.

Now I have to live with the consequences.

Because even at top level "thinking" is now regarded as "boring". And then we are not speaking about chess, but about life itself.

Human life, that is.

Aug-15-23
Premium Chessgames Member
  alexmagnus: <Because even at top level "thinking" is now regarded as "boring">

Classical chess is mostly not thinking but an endless self-doubt sesseion. Normally, you know your move within the first minute. What follows in the next minutes, is self-doubt without any reason other than having more time. Whence the "think long, think wrong" phenomenon.

When classical chess was invented, it <sped up> the chess that existed previously. It was never meant to be "slow chess".

Aug-15-23  Mayankk: If Magnus noticed the 17 ... Nxe4 tactics after he played 16 a3, why didn't he reply 16 ... Bxc3 with 17 Nxc3 instead of 17 Qxc3 ?

As far as I could see, 17 ... Nxe4 doesn't work after 17 Nxc3.

Aug-15-23
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: Hi Alec,

I recall a number of years ago that tests showed good players normally have their move within a few seconds of seeing an opponents move and 7-8 times out 10 that is the move played.

The chosen move if it differs from the first reaction move is often spotted when analysing the first choice.

Aug-15-23
Premium Chessgames Member
  beatgiant: <Mayankk> 17. Nxc3? would unprotect f4 and allow <Qf4+> forking king and bishop.
Aug-16-23
Premium Chessgames Member
  Check It Out: <alexmagnus: When classical chess was invented, it <sped up> the chess that existed previously. It was never meant to be "slow chess".>

You know, I never considered that before.

Aug-16-23
Premium Chessgames Member
  Fusilli: <Sally> <The chosen move if it differs from the first reaction move is often spotted when analysing the first choice.>

This sounds a bit ambiguous. A clear-cut example would be, "okay Ne5 doesn't work yet, how can I prepare it better?" But what about, "Darn, Ne5 never works, I'd better look for another plan... Oh, how about b4, which I never thought of before?"

Does the latter count as a move <spotted when analysing the first choice>? If yes, then any move other than the first choice would count as such, since they are either attempts at improving the first choice move or attempts at replacing it with something better.

Aug-18-23
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: Hi Fusilli,

It ran upon the lines of looking at Ne5 (the first reaction choice) and discovering 3 moves in it was not on because of a pawn to b4 move.

So then attention was switched to stopping b4 to get Ne5 to work, stopping b4 was not idea that was not first considered until it was spotted during analysis of Ne5.

You will experience this yourself when you do the POTD. One move will suggest itself within seconds.

Often it is correct but upon analysis you spot a flaw, so you keep your first reaction move up your sleeve and perhaps either remove or deflect a piece covering a sensitive square or play out the combo using a different move order.

As I said 7 or 8 times out 10 your first reaction move will get played, or to be more exact it will figure in what you eventually play. Of course it all depends on the position.

Aug-18-23
Premium Chessgames Member
  Fusilli: <Sally> I could have been clearer. In my fictitious example, Ne5 and b4 are both moves for the same side, say white. White has been thinking all along of a kingside attack supported by a knight on e5. After long reflection, white realizes that this attack will never prosper, and it is best to leave the knight on f3 (perhaps to neutralize any chances of black's own activity on the kingside) while mobilizing the queenside by advancing pawns... Then white looks, for the first time, at b4, which is completely unrelated to the Ne5 idea.

To me, that is the difference having more time makes. As a low-level master player, my two main weaknesses are: a) Misevaluation of positions (especially the resulting positions after some moves, as I see them in my head), and b) Getting stuck on a strategic idea that is sub-optimal and not realizing I have to totally change plans.

This said, I do believe you that at the highest level of play, GMs are very likely to play the first move they think of, or an alternative, better move, that supports <the same plan>... because they have been thinking of the good plan all along (while correctly evaluating positions).

So, as you said, it depends on the position, but it also depends on player's strength.

Aug-19-23  Chessius the Messius: Ok, I now understand chess is about distracting your oppenent as much as you could. Fair enough.

By coming to late on purpose, adjusting all your pieces while the game has begun already.

Then you play Queen's Gambit Accepted. Fumble with the captured pawn asap.

That's chess! According to Kasparov c.s. He found some great pupils in Carlsen and Pragg.

Bravo! I'd say. Let's "go" for it! What are we waiting for???

Aug-19-23
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: Hi Fusilli,

<So, as you said, it depends on the position, but it also depends on player's strength.>

The tests were not done under game conditions. players ranging from 1600 - GM were given selected positions and had to state their first reaction, who was better what move would they play etc...

The good players rarely changed their first reaction choice. Some lower rated players actually spotted what was deemed the best move but analysed themselves out of it.

Of course if you were in the middle of a Kingside sac attack or a long endgame plan then the chances are you will have seen what was going to be played before your opponent plays it.

It was run in the BCM (or it could have been CHESS, it was a while ago and I used to get both.)

Round about the same time a TV program ran a chess memory test. players were shown middle game positions for 20-30 seconds and then asked to recreate it on another board. Stronger players did a lot better than weaker players.

When shown positions with the pieces placed at random and haphazard all over the board. All the players struggled to recreate it.

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