Aug-13-23
 | | MissScarlett: Why resign? |
|
Aug-13-23
 | | beatgiant: After 44. Bxb4 Bxb4 45. Kxb4 Ke6 46. Kc4 Ke5 47. Kd3 Kf4 48. Ke2 Kg3 49. Kf1 <Kh2>
click for larger viewBlack is winning. And if White doesn't take the pawn, Black has a simple standard win with the extra outside passed pawn. |
|
Aug-13-23
 | | HeMateMe: At the very end white will lose the b2 pawn. |
|
| Aug-13-23 | | Toxic Narcissist: White is still worse off after 41. f3, but surely it is a better try than simply giving away the pawn. |
|
| Aug-13-23 | | csmath: White has nothing after 8.a4, it is just a move to avoid Marshal and gives white escape from Marshal but nothing more. Black is in the driver seat all the way but what lost this game was an obvious blunder 41. Kd3?.
Nevertheless, I see no special reason to resign after 43rd move, engine says it is lost but it was worth trying. Looks like Ivanchuk was not ready for Magnus, in both games he played timid chess and clearly was trying to avoid fight. He lost both deservingly. |
|
| Aug-13-23 | | csmath: I see the key idea in the ending in the end was that black king would reach h2 before white king gets to g1.
I have to say this is a matter of calculation, perhaps Ivanchuk saw it. It was lost indeed. |
|
| Aug-13-23 | | goodevans: <MissScarlett: Why resign?> If you need a win to avoid elimination then what's the point of battling on for a hard-fought draw if that's the best you can hope for? <Toxic Narcissist: White is still worse off after 41. f3, but surely it is a better try than simply giving away the pawn.> Bizarre decision. Hard to believe that he was intending to grab the b-pawn and didn't realise his K would be offside. That can't be right, surely? And even if that were the case, wouldn't you want to keep the pawn imbalance (0v1 Q-side, 3v2 K-side) in a must-win situation? |
|
| Aug-13-23 | | csmath: I think the reason why Ivanchuk resigned is that he was already eliminated, he had absolutely no chance of winning the game, the only thing he could do is to try to draw and for that he would have needed to sit another hour or so and probably still lose the game. In this knockout system that was not worth bothering. Like 2-3 rating points? But these points were important to Magnus so he did not take the draw when offered. |
|
Aug-13-23
 | | plang: Ivanchuk would not have resigned if he thought he could draw and this game would not have taken anywhere near an hour to complete. |
|
| Aug-13-23 | | EvanTheTerrible: Still a great showing by Ivanchuk, despite the less than convincing games against Carlsen. |
|
Aug-13-23
 | | Fusilli: <Toxic Narcissist: White is still worse off after 41. f3, but surely it is a better try than simply giving away the pawn.> In the post-game interview, Magnus referred to 41.Kd3 as blundering a pawn and indicated he wasn't sure it was a winning endgame (before that). 41.Kd3 is a strange blunder for a super-GM. I wonder if he suffered momentary brain fog. |
|
Aug-13-23
 | | tamar: Ivanchuk has a history of resigning early, and Magnus knows that. He also shows his emotions at the board, and definitely let Magnus know with a shake of his head before playing 30 Ne2 that his plans had gone awry. |
|
Aug-13-23
 | | saffuna: There used to be courtesy draws when a draw was good enough for the player with the advantage. For example, Yusupov offered a draw against Ivanchuk in the final game the famous 1991 Candidates Quarterfinal match, even though Ivanchuk was attempting to resign. Yusupov vs Ivanchuk, 1991 |
|
Aug-13-23
| | beatgiant: <tamar> If his plays had already gone awry, why not go for broke with <30. Bxd5> cxd5 31. Qxd5. Of course Black would get plenty of play with the advanced b-pawn and supporting pieces, but at least White also has the extra passed pawn. I don't see an immediate forced win or draw after that, so White would be inviting a double-edged fight. |
|
| Aug-13-23 | | metatron2: Ivanchuk's nerves showed up again big time, against Magnus here. He basically blitzed out this entire game, and he actually moved on to bullet starting from move 20..
That's certainly not the way to beat Carlsen in a must win situation. Pure nerves, as we could also see when Ivanchuk gave his f2 pawn without thinking, and continued shortly afterwards with an early resignation. In his first Magnus game as well, Ivanchuk got a good position from the opening, but apparently lost his nerves after Carlsen surprised him with 17.Rc1: His 22.. Bxf3 move was a good indication for that. Giving up a that important bishop (that cannot be pushed away with h2-h3) for no reason at all. Anyway great performance by Ivancuk in the world cup, making it to the final 16 |
|
Aug-13-23
| | tamar: <beatgiant>A bit of a mystery why Ivanchuk would play 30 Ne2 and then offer a draw, when had he offered a draw after 30 Bxd5, Magnus would have to think about what would happen if he rejected a draw offer a pawn down. Magnus says he is not known for "being merciful", but odds are he would take the draw, as 3 results are possible instead of only
2. |
|
| Aug-13-23 | | EvanTheTerrible: I think an improvement on Ivanchuk's 17. Be3 would have been Re2. Doubled rooks on the a-file would have been a veritable thorn in black's side and it seems that Be3 could have been delayed without significant downside. |
|
Aug-13-23
| | Fusilli: <saffuna: There used to be courtesy draws when a draw was good enough for the player with the advantage. For example, Yusupov offered a draw against Ivanchuk in the final game the famous 1991 Candidates Quarterfinal match, even though Ivanchuk was attempting to resign.> That story is a bit confusing. In the game's page, <Gypsy> posted the quote from Dvoretsky: Yusupov vs Ivanchuk, 1991. The final position in that game is indeed drawn. That being about to flag would motivate Ivanchuk to resign is strange. I wonder if Ivanchuk was, so to speak, resigning the match rather than the game. On the more general point, I am not sure if a courtesy draw is a norm to be upheld, but that can be debated. In this case, in the post-game interview, Magnus said "I am not normally known for being merciful." |
|
Aug-14-23
 | | perfidious: Karpov vs Korchnoi, 1974 is a well-known example of a top player ceding a draw when that wrapped up matters in his favour. Two instances where, on the other hand, the balance of the contest was played out, even with matters decided, were: Euwe - Alekhine World Championship Rematch (1937) and Petrosian - Spassky World Championship Match (1966). In the former instance, games 26-30 are listed separately, while games 23-24 from 1966 are regarded as being part of that match. |
|
| Aug-14-23 | | Ulhumbrus: After 17...Nd8 Black's c pawn is backward whereas White may be able to advance his f pawn. Ivanchuk will want to either advance his f pawn and make his king side pawns, or else to extract enough concessions from Carlsen trying to avoid it. Carlsen will want to try to hinder that advance and does try to hinder that advance but after 20...c6 Ivanchuk has managed to get ready for it but at a price: Carlsen has been allowed to acquire a passed b pawn. The computer evaluations and analysis help to suggest that 21 Qa4? is inconsistent. Having freed the f pawn to move, 21 f4 is consistent, making White's king side pawn majority count. Having given Black a passed b pawn Ivanchuk will need to either advance his f pawn or else to at least reduce the value of Black's b pawn to Black or even make it useful to White eg by 21 Nb3 using the b pawn to shelter White's N defending the d4 pawn, but this is a defensive move and not what White will prefer if he has a choice. |
|
Aug-14-23
 | | fredthebear: This is the first game shown on Levy's video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oM... |
|
Aug-15-23
| | Fusilli: <perfidious> And then there is the strategic draw in a better position, as in Caruana vs Carlsen, 2018, where Carlsen was a bit better but had total confidence in his ability to outplay Caruana at the faster time control of the tie-break, which he did comfortably. |
|
Aug-15-23
 | | chancho: ]44. Bxb4 Bxb4 45. Kxb4 Kf6 46. Kc3 Kf5 47. Kd3 Kf4 48. Ke2 Kg3 49. Kf1 Kh2 50. Kf2 g5 51. Kf3 h5 52. Kf2 h4 53. Kf3 Kg1 54. Kg4 Kxg2 55. Kxg5 Kxh3 56. Kf4 Kg2 |
|
Kibitzing
