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| Mar-08-06 | | marn0: Anyone have lines on the Scotch Gambit? I often reach it through the Bishop's Opening: 1.e4 e5 2.Bc4 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Nf3... and am interested in continuations. |
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| Mar-08-06 | | marn0: BTW this line (Scotch Gambit via the Bishop's) avoids the Petroff! |
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| Mar-08-06 | | e4Newman: hi <marn0> good to see another IECC member interesting move order, i would never play 2...Nc6 but i see the transposition |
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| Mar-08-06 | | Swapmeet: Anyone besides me play the Blumenfeld variation? 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 Bc5 5.Be3 Qf6 6.Nb5 |
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| Mar-08-06 | | who: <marn0> another way to get the scotch and avoid the petroff (advocated by Yasser at http://www.chesscafe.com/text/yaz23...) is simply to play 1.e4 e5 2.d4! where after 2...exd4 3.Nf3 c5 4.c3 with advantage to white. |
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| Mar-08-06 | | marn0: <who: another way to get the scotch> Well I did not mean that I deliberately head for the Scotch Gambit from the start, but it is a variation among several that often develop when opening with 1.e4 e5 2.c4. I also like the Urusoff quite a bit, and the Evans... I'm just a gambit player at heart, I guess. |
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| Mar-08-06 | | nicholas king: Hi I play the scotch often but there is a line that i have trouble playing against.
It goes 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nxc6 bxc6 6.e5 Qe7 7.Qe2 Nd5 8.c4 Ba6 9.b3 Qh4!? Any suggestions? |
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Mar-08-06
 | | tpstar: <nicholas king> Hello! Welcome to the group! The database has 4 games with 10. Bb2 Bb4+ which scored well for Black (3W, 1D, 0L) so White should play 10. a3 Opening Explorer Now if 10 ... Bc5 11. Ra2 is playable Opening Explorer or the direct sacrifice line 10 ... Bc5 11. g3 Bxf2+ 12. Qxf2 Qe4+ Opening Explorer Then if 10 ... Nf4 11. Qe4 Ng6 12. Qxh4 Nxh4 Opening Explorer and White is fine. See you around. |
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Mar-25-06
 | | WTHarvey: Here's a collection of crucial positions found in Scotch Game (ECO C45) miniatures: http://www.wtharvey.com/c45.html What's the winning move? |
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| Mar-29-06 | | ongyj: After quite abit of working on the Scotch opening, my personal conclusion is that after 4...Nf6 5.Nxc6 bxc6, 6.Qd4!? is the only move for 'alive chess'- games which are still playable rather than dull, boring and dead. Just look at the opening book/databases meek attempt with 6.e5 which usually ends up being exploited by Black's retaliation, following a senseless chunk which ends in a dead draw. In this kind of situation, the pawn advancement is just a 'cheap trial' to me. However, I do admit that I'm not so knowledgable, never read up on books on the scotch and this commentary are made purely based on what I felt and experienced. I sincerely await feedbacks and if better yet, guidance on this opening. As a matter of fact at this point of time this is probaby my dream position for White so long as 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 occurs. Thanks alot for the follow-up! |
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| Mar-29-06 | | alicefujimori: One of the lines that actually gives me great concern is when Black meets the Scotch with the Stenitz Variation (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 Qh4). I've read both Wells and Lane's book on the Scotch and after doing some extra analysis with the help of Fritz, I am pretty much convinced that all those so-called "advantageous" recommendations given by both books are all "temporary". This pretty much means that Black, with some well prepared defensive skills, can pretty much win a pawn for nothing in the long run. In GM level, a pawn might not worth too much because with their tehnique they could probably hold a draw. But for us lesser mortals a pawn means a pawn. |
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| Mar-29-06 | | csmath: It is not possible for white to win with any variation of Scotch against a strong computer. There is no opening advantage anywhere. I play Scotch only as a surprise opening against weaker opponents. I don't think it is even worth studying unless you are playing e5 on e4 as black. It is better to opt for openings with more complicated middlegame, and Ruy-Lopez offers that. |
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| Mar-29-06 | | Akavall: <alice> IMO, after 4...Qh4, white has plenty compensation for the pawn; black would have to show some good defensive skills to survive--black king is stuck in the center, black is behind in development. However, white would would have to show good attacking skills to take abvantage of that and win :). This is one fun line of Scotch for both sides. Btw, black rarely plays 4...Qh4 at GM level, so white is most likely are in good shape in this line objectively speaking... |
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| Mar-29-06 | | shr0pshire: <alicefujimori> in my opinion the Wells and Lane books aren't authorative on the Steinitz variation, the Gutman book is. Kasparov said about the Gutman book, "we need a new kind of book, which tries to connect the past with the present and the future, to unite old material with modern theory...I hope this new book will set an example as to how the new opening books should be written." The Gutman book has helped me score wins over several very strong correspondence players. shr0p. |
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| Mar-29-06 | | MUG: <4...Qh4?! seems to be rushing full steam ahead towards the status of 'unplayable'. This crisis is two-pronged. Both 5.Nb5 Bc5 6.Qf3! and the 'new' gambit approach 5.Nc3!? Bb4 6.Be2! cause very severe problems.> - Wells. I have to agree with <alice> though, somehow I feel that this isn't as bad for Black as Wells tries to imply. |
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| Mar-30-06 | | alicefujimori: <Akavall>The variations given in Lane's and Well's books(Strangely, both book's variations and comments are very similiar, btw) are pretty much the same, but the variations they had shown and recommended does not convince me at all. (most of those variations neglects Black's solid setup of early d6 setting up a defence and instead gives all those lines where Black plays for the attack when the position does not even call for it) <shr0pshire>I think Gutman wrote a book specifically on the Stenitz Variation, right? I was trying to get a hold of that book but so far to no avail. Can you possibly tell me some assessment of the line given by Gutman in his book? (Some sample variation will be very appreciated too). Thanks in advance. |
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| Apr-03-06 | | shr0pshire: <alicefujimori> Yes the Gutman book is specifically on the Steinitz variation. Umm I am not quite sure how to give some assessment of a line he is giving because he is so thorough, though only on the rather obscure Steinitz variation. The book is a hefty 250 pages+ just on the Steinitz variation. If you want to give me your email, I can give you a better idea of what the book is like. shr0p. |
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| Apr-03-06 | | shr0pshire: Although <Alice> you seem like a cool cat, so here are some games of correspondence players who are friends of mine who have recently played the Steinitz variation. BTW, all four of these players are titled correspondence masters. [White "alapin"]
[Black "michaelbuss"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Termination "White resigned"]
[WhiteElo "2780"]
[BlackElo "3078"]
[Mode "ICS"]
[DateLastMove "2006.3.3"]
[ECO "C45"]
[Board "2114288"]
1. e4 e5 2. Ng1f3 Nb8c6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nf3xd4 Qd8h4 5. Nd4b5 Bf8b4 6. Bc1d2 Bb4c5 7. Qd1e2 d6 8. Nb5xc7 Ke8d8 9. Nc7xa8 Bc8g4 10. g3 Qh4h5 11. Qe2d3 Nc6e5 12. Qd3c3 Ng8f6 13. Bf1g2 Bg4f3 14. O-O Nf6xe4 15. Qc3b3 Ne4xf2 16. Rf1xf2 Bc5xf2 17. Kg1xf2 Bf3xg2 18. Qb3a3 Ne5g4 19. Kf2xg2 Qh5xh2 20. Kg2f3 Ng4e5 21. Kf3e4 Qh2e2 22. Ke4d4 Qe2c4 White resigned 0-1 [White "magnus75"]
[Black "Sand@man_be"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Termination "White resigned"]
[WhiteElo "2664"]
[BlackElo "2771"]
[Mode "ICS"]
[DateLastMove "2006.3.26"]
[ECO "C45"]
[Board "2114284"]
1. e4 e5 2. Ng1f3 Nb8c6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nf3xd4 Qd8h4 5. Nb1c3 Bf8b4 6. Nd4b5 Bb4a5 7. Bf1e2 a6 8. Nb5d4 Qh4xe4 9. Nd4xc6 Ba5xc3 10. bxc3 dxc6 11. O-O Ng8f6 12. Be2f3 Qe4c4 13. Rf1e1 Bc8e6 14. Ra1b1 Ra8d8 15. Qd1e2 Qc4xe2 16. Bf3xe2 b5 17. Bc1a3 Ke8d7 18. Ba3c5 Rh8e8 19. Rb1d1 Kd7c8 20. Be2d3 Be6xa2 21. Bc5e7 Re8xe7 22. Re1xe7 Ba2e6 23. Rd1a1 Kc8b7 24. c4 g6 25. cxb5 White resigned 0-1 I hope these games serve you well. Also, I may be able to help you as well in this variation if you want. I play it as well, I think it is a fun opening that hasn't been analyzed as much as the other variation, and provides a nice counter-attacking game. |
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| Apr-04-06 | | alicefujimori: <shr0pshire>Thank you very much for your input. I will look at the games when I have time. Regarding the assessments of Gutman's book, I specifically only want to know a few things. 1) Which variation does Gutman assess to be the "best" or "main" line against the Stenitz Variation? 2) What's the general assessment of the line 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 Qh4 5.Nc3 Bb4 6.Be2 in Gutman's book? (This variation was recommended to be the "best" variation for white in Lane's and Well's book, but I was not convinced with their assessment.) You don't have to give me a very detailed answer. I only want an overall idea of the book to see if I should get the book. If Gutman's book explains or addresses the answers to my query very well, I will then try and get hold of the book. Anyway, once again thank you for your troubles. |
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| Apr-07-06 | | shr0pshire: <alicefujimori> So let's see I have the book out in front of me, and hopefully I can give you a better idea of what Gutman recommends. The brunt of the book is divided up between the Horowitz variation (5. Nb5). Actually the first game I posted above is a really good example of this variation and how black sets up a blistering attack by sacrificing the exchange. I will just let that game speak for the way the Horowitz variation should be handled as black because Mr. Michael Buss is a titled USCF correspondence master, and a great player and a good friend of mine. The other variation that Gutman spends most of the time in the book is what he calls the modern variation (5.Nc3) is the most popular variation. http://www.thekibitzer.info/blog
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| Apr-08-06 | | centercontrol: i saw a few amatuers who played nxd4.can any1 tell me a good reason why not 2 do so? |
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| Apr-08-06 | | alicefujimori: <centercontrol>Because after Qxd4 Black's behind in development while White has control of the centre. Ironically, your handle is one of the reason why Nxd4 is bad . :) <shr0pshire>Thanks for the input. I think I should try and get the book then. |
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| Apr-08-06 | | Swapmeet: What should white do after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 Bc5 5.Be3 Nxd4 6.Bxd4 Bxd4 7.Qxd4 Qf6 ? I realize this probably should be bad for black, but I'm hard pressed to find a good idea for white. At first I tried 8.e5, but then 8...Qb6 looks ok for black. Most recently I've tried 8.Qc3 and have been happy with it. |
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| Apr-08-06 | | alicefujimori: <Swapmeet><What should white do after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 Bc5 5.Be3 Nxd4 6.Bxd4 Bxd4 7.Qxd4 Qf6 ?>Maybe you can try 8.c3. If Black exchanges queens, then you'll be left with two centre pawns and central control. |
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| Apr-08-06 | | Dudley: 8.c3 is better than 8.Qc3. White shouldn't be forced to move his queen a 2nd time just because Black "threatens" to trade queens. In the Scotch game, White has to be willing to play simplified positions with a small advantage. That's one of the reasons I eventually found new openings for White after playing the Scotch for many years. I will say that its good for building endgame skill and learning to exploit slight advantages in open positions, but I wanted to keep more pieces on the board. Anyone agree/disagree? |
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