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May-11-05 | | acirce: <RookFile> Why are you pretending that White always (or "over and over again") fianchettoes his queen bishop in the Bird's? It can be handled in different ways just like the Dutch. |
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May-11-05 | | RookFile: It can be kind of tricky, acire, with us thinking about things with the colors reversed. I'm drawing a comparison between something like 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. Bd2 0-0 5. a3 Bxc3 6. Bxc3 b6 7. Nf3 Bb7 8. e3 Ne4 9. Qc2 and something like this:
1. f4 d5 2. e3 Nf6 3. Nf3 c5 4. b3 e6
5. Bb2 Nc6 6. Bb5 Bd7 etc.
So, the Bird's opening is like the
Dutch when you adopt the 'stonewall'
formation, of course. But then neither the Bird's nor the Dutch become relavent to the Nimzo Indian
comparison, because in the Dutch, you
usually don't see black play ...Bb4
and trade off that bishop. Normally
in the stonewall, you want to hold onto
that one.
But when you play over any one of the
numerous Bird's games with the
queenside fianchetto, you get ample
ideas to use if you want to play
the Nimzo with ....b6 as Black, like
this game:
J Jongedijk vs Alekhine, 1936
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Sep-05-05 | | chessnewbie: what happens if black pushes the pawn to d5? i play c6 but then he plays c4 to protect his d5 pawn? any suggestions? |
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Sep-06-05
 | | WannaBe: <chessnewbie> Sounds like E52-E58. If you use the Explore this opening link (right below the picture) you can get some info. |
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May-16-06 | | positionalbrilliancy: Anyone know where the Indian defense get their name...? |
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May-16-06 | | square dance: <Anyone know where the Indian defense get their name...?> well, i read that those defenses are called "indians" because they were considered exotic when they first came into play. but if you mean specifically, the queens and kings indians speak for themselves while the nimzo-indian was named after aron nimzowitch and the bogo-indian was named after efim bogoljubov. |
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May-23-06 | | Microbe: I seem to have a problem with two of the defences against 4. Bd2 on here. The first defence of:
4... 0-0 5. a3 Bxc3 6. Bxc3 Ne4 does seem best I will agree but still good for white after 7. Qc2 ... and now the best response I can come up with is d6. Maybe 7... b6 will help control the diagonal? Any ideas? The second defence of:
4... c5 5. Nb5 Ne4!? 6. Bxb4 cxb4 seems to have missed 7. Qa4 ... Is there a good response for black to this? 7...a6? doesn't work as 8... axb5?? 9. Qxa8 loses the rook and 7... Nc6 8. e3 gives a good position for white and a scattered, cramped position for black. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just an amateur who likes the nimzo-indian but has been worrying about this response for over a month now. |
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May-23-06 | | euripides: <microbe> I don't play this position for either side. But if White puts his bishop on a silly square like d2 i think Black might encourage him to keep it there. So after 4 Bd2 0-0 5 a3 I guess Black can withdraw his bishop and shouldn't be worse. |
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May-23-06
 | | WTHarvey: Here's 10 puzzles from E20 miniatures: http://www.wtharvey.com/e20.html |
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May-24-06 | | Microbe: <euripidies> Thanks for the quick response! I like the idea of playing on the poorly positioned bishop and cutting and running. But I can't see a way out of the following: 4. Bd2 0-0
5. a3 Be7
(after 5... a5 then 6. b4 Bb6 7. c4 and the bishop is trapped and after 5... Bd6 6. e4 and I cannot find a defence to the advance 7. e5 which scatters black's pieces everywhere or else black loses a piece) 6. e4!
Now white has an overwhelming pawn majority in the centre. Black has not really got a good continuation here. The best I can think of follows. I'm hoping someone can show me something better. 6. ... d5
7. e5 Ne4
8. Nxe4 dxe4
With a serious weakness for black. especially after the queen's pawn is protected after 9. Bb3 or 9. Ne2. Any more ideas to put an end to this madness anyone? |
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Jul-05-06
 | | WannaBe: I see that the Nimzo-Indian covers a wide swath of ECO from E20-E59, does this opening favours positional player? What are some of the plus/minus of this opening? I usually use the KID, but have been thinking about adding another d4 opening as black into my knowledge bank. Thanks in advance. |
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Jul-05-06 | | suenteus po 147: <WannaBe> I have heard and read that the Nimzo-Indian is a solid defense against 1.d4, even more solid than the KID, but I can tell you that my tenative experiments have ended in disaster. If you really want something else against 1.d4 I suggest the Tarrasch defense of derivations thereof. |
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Jul-05-06
 | | WannaBe: <suenteus po 147> I shall look into it. =) |
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Jul-05-06
 | | WannaBe: <suenteus po 147> I can't find it with the home page's "opening is", do you have a line or an ECO for it? |
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Jul-05-06 | | suenteus po 147: <WannaBe> The first, most common variation is found here: Queen's Gambit Declined, Tarrasch (D32) with only two more variations that follow immediately after in the ECO code. |
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Jul-05-06
 | | WannaBe: <suenteus po 147> Thanks again, I shall start my study there. |
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Jul-06-06 | | themadhair: <suenteus po 147><WannaBe><anyone else struggling with this opening> The main reason why this is such a seemingly difficult opening to master is because how much the pawn structures determine what should be played. Black has five main ideas in this opening: 1. Counter attack with d5 to attack whites centre. Strategically fine but tactically complicated.
2.Counter attack with d6 and e5. Playing Nc6 (and not d7) seems neccessary to avoid a cramped game.
3.Counter attack with c5 to break up whites centre. Not the best if black ends up with a weak backward queens pawn.
4.Counterplay with Bxc3 and an attack against the c4 pawn. Usually delayed until white plays a3 but can in some situations be played without white playing a3.
5.Kingside attack - especially if white has weakened the kingside in any way. Here is the main problem - which plan to play and when to play it? It must be determined by analysing the pawn structure. For example the kingside attack would be effective if the pawn structure was
 click for larger view
Bottom line is if you want to learn this opening then you must learn how to handle the pawn structures that arise - and that makes this opening difficult to learn. Is it worth the effort learning it? Depends how much time you are willing to invest in it. |
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Jul-06-06 | | suenteus po 147: <themadhair> Thank you for the informative and instructive breakdown about the Nimzo-Indian and major approaches behind it. It will definitely be a defense I want to learn and master in the future, but for now I don't think I'm knowledgable enough to learn and handle pawn structures. |
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Jul-06-06 | | themadhair: <suenteus po 147> Think of it this way - if you do devote the time to learn it properly then the knowledge you will have gained about pawn structures will be useful in many other openings. But it is a major commitment. |
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Jul-06-06 | | suenteus po 147: <themadhair> I agree completely that the gains from learning the Nimzo-Indian would be enormous if I learned it. But as you also said, it's a big commitment and I just don't have the time at all to begin such a big project. But I will learn it someday precisely of the enormous gain I will earn. |
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Jul-06-06 | | ganstaman: <themadhair> I like pawn structure #5. It's like playing the Dutch without having to worry about any annoying gambits, 2.Bg5 (I like playing black against the Tromp, don't like the move in the Dutch), or a kingside fianchetto by white (most likely). Well, I guess white can still play g3 earlier. Then I guess you'd recommend a Queen's Indian, which you can still turn into the Dutch pawn structure if you want. Turn that solid, drawing QI into a risky, exciting Dutch -- seems like a good plan to me. Have you tried this much? How does it work out for you? |
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Jul-06-06 | | RookFile: With white, Capablanca was absolutely sure that the best approach was 4. Qc2 followed by a3. |
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Jul-06-06 | | ganstaman: Oh yeah, I forgot to say this before: can you give some sample move orders than can lead to that pawn structure? I don't think black should try to force the ...f5 too early just for the sake of it, so I'm thinking that the moves leading up to it would be sensible moves in a NI game anyway. I just can't seem to fully be able to figure it out. |
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Jul-06-06 | | ganstaman: Oh, I found that move order. Seems that RookFile was convinced a page back that the Nimzo was the Bird's opening in reverse, which is only true when black plays the Nimzo with the Dutch pawn structure and white plays Bb5 in the Bird. Regardless, he showed how to get that position, which is what I wanted. |
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Jul-06-06 | | RookFile: Glad I could be of service to you, 007. |
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