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| Apr-24-04 | | ruylopez900: Playing 3.c4 actually makes sense, since when you play Nc3 you don't block in the pawn. |
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| May-02-04 | | Tigran Petrosian: This opening sucks! |
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| May-02-04 | | ruylopez900: <TP> If you're just looking at the numbers, I would suggest that the numbers are skewed to White's side since stronger players tend to play the Sicilian or 1...e5 |
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| May-02-04 | | acirce: Everyone knows the statistics on this site is irrelevant, but ask yourself WHY the stronger players so seldom play this. |
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| May-02-04 | | ruylopez900: <acirce> I would say the reason the best don't play this is because the Sicilian, French, caro-kann, 1...e5, etc. are better. That doesn't mean this sucks (1...g5 sucks) just that it isn't as good as many other openings. |
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| May-02-04 | | acirce: And I would agree with you :-) I don't think it sucks either. |
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| May-02-04 | | iron maiden: Didn't this used to be called the Center Counter Defense? |
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May-02-04
 | | Sneaky: Center Counter, Scandinavian, it's all the same. Just don't be a rube and call it "the Center Game" because that's a totally different bag of laundry. |
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| May-03-04 | | paultopia: hmm.... how do people think this compares, in terms of general playability, to the Alekhine? I'm looking for a good opening system as black to e4, something that doesn't require me to have reams of theory (like the sicilian), accept obnoxious cramped positions and quiet games (like the french, or worse, the ruy... I HATE the ruy), or run me into many opponents who are grotesquely booked on every imaginable line (like the caro). Something nice and sharp. I'm kicking around the icelandic gambit variation of the scandinavian, as well as the alekhine. The icelandic because I tend to play better in wide-open games and attack, and the alekhine because all the perverse knight stuff appeals mightly... I'd appreciate any advice! thanks. |
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| May-03-04 | | ruylopez900: <Paultopia> I'm inclined to say that the Scandinavian is better then Alekhine's for beginner's, but if you know your stuff I'd put my chip in for the Alekhine's main reason for this is that its hypermodern, allows White a lead in development and isn't quite logical (different then sound =D). |
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| May-03-04 | | AgentRgent: <Paultopia> Having played the black side of both (Alekhine & Scandinavian) for quite some time, my suggestion would be to go with Alekhine's defense. The primary reason for my suggestion is that, in my opinion, the play for white in the Scandinavian is much more "natrual" than in the Alekhine's. That is to say that white can more easily stumble into complications or positions that favor black in the Alekhine's. In both openings Black presents targets for White inviting him to overextend. But in the Alekhine's, the target (the Knight) is primarily attacked by pawns (2. e5 Nd5 3. c4) while in the Scandinavian, the Queen is attacked by pieces (2...Qxd5 3. Nc3) which means that White is also developing while attacking. I think this tends to make things easier for the White player. Furthermore, in the Scandinavian, there are far more opportunites for White to transpose into better known (to him) territory, whereas in the Alekhine's defense play will go down a much narrower, and better known (to Black) path. Just my opinion, both are fine defenses for Black. |
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| May-04-04 | | paultopia: Thanks ruy and agent. I'm trying to put together a reliable opening rep. as black against e5, with the idea of avoiding the ruy because I hate it, the sicilian and the caro because there's way too much theory to learn, and the french because, well, because I can't bear the idea of playing the french. I'd sooner give queen odds against a grandmaster than play the french. That pretty much leaves the Scandinavian and the Alekhine, with the Petroff coming in there, but the Petroff seems too easy for white to transpose into something icky. Whereas I think we can agree that neither is really possible with the Alekhine or the Scandinavian. (Well, I SUPPOSE the Alekhine could maybe be transposed into the french or something... but only by a real sicko... ) Agent: re your comments about the Scandinavian -- I agree tha the 2. ... Qxd5 line gives white a good attack, but the 2. ... Nf6 line seems very tempting. The sheer confusion value of the Alekhine seems to be carrying the day here. |
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May-04-04
| | Sneaky: I played around with the ...Nf6 variations and I found them to be uncomfortable. But the variation that interest me is 1.e4 d5 2.ed Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qd6!? For starters, your opponents are not going be well prepared for this. But moreover, the queen has many options from that location, it seems to be a lot more flexible than the Qa5 variations. Here's the Opening Explorer's page on it: Opening Explorer Judit Polgar vs Kurajica, 2002 is a nice demonstration. |
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| May-04-04 | | AgentRgent: <I SUPPOSE the Alekhine could maybe be transposed into the french or something> Actually that happens to me more often than you might think. 1. e4 Nf6 2. d3 d5 3. e5 Nfd7 4. d4 e6 and it's a French... BUT, it's a French with an extra tempo for Black! which makes it a lot more pleasant to play. |
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| May-04-04 | | AgentRgent: <Sneaky> I've been interested in that line as well. Thought you might find this interesting: http://www.chessbookreviews.com/rev... Also here's a high level game featuring the line. (I'm sure you've seen it, but others might not have) Kasparov vs I Rogers, 2001 |
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| May-04-04 | | AgentRgent: For players interested in 3...Qd6 this is a must see game!
L Harkes vs Lorne Yee, 2001 |
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| May-04-04 | | paultopia: Funny enough, I'm in the midst of a internet correspondence game where the Alekhine is about to be transposed into the Scandinavian. (1. e4 Nf6 2. Nc3 d5 with the expected continuation 3. exd5 Nxd5 ) By someone who, in a completely different game with me, is playing the french. Oy. |
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| May-04-04 | | AgentRgent: <Paultopia: Re: 1. e4 Nf6 2. Nc3 d5> Strangely enough this move order is what I get about 60% of the time with 1...Nf6 (Wimps!), but I almost Never get it after 1...d5, even when I play the 2...Nf6 Scandinavian, white invariably plays 3. c4. |
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| May-05-04 | | fred lennox: Placing the queen effectively is often sensitive for black. The queen bishop is often a burden in many openings. With this opening, after the third move, say 3...Qd6, twa-la! Well, not so simple. Black has the option to make either bishop bad, which usually fianchettos, or neither one. It's the flexibility that I find appealing. Queen exchange will probably be other than at d1 or d8. The queen is a little too exposed. A piece is either a little too exposed (or more) or not exposed enough. Both are negative. Compensation is key. No opening has it completely. Confidence in handling the queens subtleties is a premise. Another reason it attracks me. To improve my skill with the queen. |
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| Jun-07-04 | | Viking: 3. c4 is a mistake, because of Qe4+, when white will have to trade queens to avoid material loss. |
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| Jun-07-04 | | ruylopez900: Viking, are you referring to <1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.c4> ? If so then upon Qe4+ You can black with the Bishop to avoid material loss or, you can just trade off Queens (nothing wrong with this. You have more space for your pieces and it gets rid of an enemy developed piece while developing one of your own. Of course if itsn't this line then my discussion is irrelevant. :) |
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| Jun-14-04 | | get Reti: I like this line as black: 1.e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qa5 4. d4 e5. This threatens 5 ...Bb4, gaining a pawn and giving a weak pawn structure on the left side. If white plays Bd2, then Nc6 is also good. If 5. dxe5(the usual move) then Qxd5+ also threatening 5...Bb4. Is there anything wrong with this line? I'm not that great at chess, so I'm probably missing something. |
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| Jun-14-04 | | Helloween: Ivanchuk vs K Angelov, 1987 illustrates the dangers of opening the position with 4...e5, the Andersson counterattack. |
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| Jun-14-04 | | get Reti: True, however he didn't play 5...Qxd5+ like I said |
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| Jun-14-04 | | Dudley: <get Reti> 5.Nf3 is the book answer to your line, 5.Nf3 ed 6.Nxd4 Bb4 7.Bd2 Qe5+ 8.Qe2 Qxe2+ 9.Bxe2 c6 10.Ne4! and white has a lead in development. 5...Bg4 6.h3 ed 7.Qxd4 Bxf3 8. Qe3! and Qxf3, black has helped white open the position for the two bishops.
5...Bb4 6.Bd2 ed 7.Qe2+ Ne7 8.Nxd4 O-O 9.a3 Bd6 10. Ncb5 Qb6 11. o-o-o Be6 12 Bg5+/-. In general, 4...e5 is an aggressive move that might work but white should keep the edge with correct play. Analysis from Winning with 1.e4, Soltis. |
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