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May-01-04 | | chessplayermatthew: what is so bad about htis opening that its not tacked about |
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May-01-04 | | iron maiden: It's not really particularly bad; I just think that to the average player, it seems more boring than the King's Gambit or even the Ruy Lopez. |
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May-01-04 | | fred lennox: I love this opening. The Giuoco Piano is the first recorded opening - 1490 -when Italy was the ruling power of chess. I can do no better than to quote I. A. Horowitz. The GP "...is spirited and forceful. It grants Whtie latitude for imagination, leading to exciting combinations, and is full of pitfalls for the unwary."
"GP is a wild and woolly game, with tactical threats and combinations predominating, it should appeal to the type of player whose imagination occasionally runs rampant." |
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Aug-07-04 | | Helloween: <chessplayermatthew, iron maiden>Another reason may be because it gives Black such an easy game compared to other King's pawn openings. |
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Aug-07-04 | | Dudley: It's a great opening as long as you play it the right way. ie. 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 Nf6 5.d4! exd4 6.cxd4 Bb4+ 7.Nc3 opens up the game quickly and allows many exciting possilities,much more early action than the Ruy Lopez. However, when white plays 4.d3 Nf6 5.Nc3 we end up with a closed position that the English call the "old stodge" which is not much for either side. I'll agree that is boring. However the Moller attack in the Giuoco as described above is not an "easy game" for black compared to other king pawn openings, in fact it is one of the most tactical lines in all of chess theory. The only reason it is not played much by masters is that it is just too hot to handle. The opening is a good training ground in wide open tactical chess, the kind that everyone should learn at some point. The whole Italian game complex has enough in it to keep most people busy for quite a while. |
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Aug-08-04 | | Helloween: <Dudley> Wow, someone actually condoning the cheapo 7.Nc3?!. I find it hard to buy, since most players learn the Black side of this line early in their chess careers(White players between 1000-1500 seem to adore the Italian Game). I remember going to chess club and playing against 7.Nc3?! when I was just starting out and getting creamed. I went home and studied the lines, then when I played against it the next time I demolished the guy. Every time I've faced it since, I've won with Black. The opening books must be right with their assessment of 7.Nc3?!. |
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Aug-08-04 | | Lawrence: <Helloween>, that's strange because Opening Explorer shows 52 percent wins for White with 7.Nc3 and only 30 percent with 7.Bd2. Maybe you're winning those games because with all that studying you're a better player of the Guioco Piano than your opponents are but not because 7.Nc3 is a weak move. |
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Aug-08-04 | | acirce: Or because those OE stats are not to be trusted. |
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Aug-08-04 | | Helloween: I agree with acirce. The Opening Explorer has excellent statistics in lines where there are many games(2,000+)contained, but the win/loss/draw rate must be more carefully examined when there are fewer games in rarer lines. Also, one should look deeper into a line than, for example, the % of White wins after 7.Nc3. You have to see the win % after the various moves that Black has at his disposal, in all the branches and sub-branches, in order to get a good idea of the validity of a particular line. Another reason why these stats are skewed are because sometimes, a much higher rated player who has White may actually play a dubious line like this on very rare instances, usually to try out an idea or snag a quick victory over his lesser fry. |
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Aug-08-04 | | Dudley: I still think that an opening like this is worth playing for a while, to learn tactics in double KP games. I'm sure that it was analyzed to death long ago, but there are other ways to play the complex if the Moller attack isn't working. 5.d3 (in combination with c3) has been played as a way of getting into Ruy Lopez type positions without all the theory. I'm interested in this stuff partly because I coach a grade school chess club, and I want the better players to get a feel for tactics. |
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Aug-09-04 | | acirce: <Helloween> Yes, I mean (as pointed out before) the strongest first move for White would be 1.g4 by far according to these stats. It is also important to look at when the games were played, some dubious openings may have scored great until it was realized how to deal with them, etc etc. |
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Jun-24-05 | | Knight13: This opening is way too commonly played. |
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Jul-13-05 | | farrooj: hey guys I'm studying this opening with c3 followed by b4. Is there a page for that opening? |
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Jul-13-05 | | mymt: <farrooj> have you got a Premium Membership?.It gives you FULL access to the Opening Explorer & the Game Collections which have just about everything you want . Well worth the money & you can have a little picture next to your name! |
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Jul-13-05 | | farrooj: I know the advantages of Premium memberships. Is there some kind of member code that doesn't allow Premium members to give opening explorer pages or other things? :) |
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Jul-13-05
 | | tpstar: <farooj> Opening Explorer But that variation does not have a separate page here. |
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Jul-14-05 | | farrooj: thanks <tpstar> is there a win/loss percentage for that opening? |
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Jul-14-05 | | mymt: <farrooj> 4.c3 Nf6 5.b4 - 73 games 45.2% [1-0] 23.3% [=] 31.5% [0-1] |
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Jul-14-05 | | farrooj: thanks <mymt> |
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Aug-03-05 | | who: <Helloween and others> what do you play against 7.Bd2 Bxd2 8.Nbxd2 d5 9.exd5 Nxd5. If 10.Qb3 what about ...Na5 |
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Aug-03-05 | | Robin01: I enjoy playing the 4. ...Qe7 variation for black. |
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Aug-31-05 | | Swapmeet: Does white have some sort of refutation here?
7.Nc3 Bxc3+ 8.bxc3 Nxe4
I can't seem to find this line anywhere (except in alot of U10 championships, which says something right there...)
I was just wondering since 9.0-0 would just transpose into a line that is somewhat inferior for white, no? |
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Aug-31-05 | | Pawn Ambush: Steinitz vs Lasker, 1896 Steinitz vs Lasker, 1896
Try these for starters |
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Aug-31-05 | | Pawn Ambush: http://www.chesslab.com/PositionSea... Better yet try this!! |
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Sep-14-05 | | bumpmobile: Here's a rather mundane and half chess-related question specific to this opening: How would one pronounce the name of this opening? When I say it, it comes out with more syllables than it probably should. |
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