< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Apr-16-22
 | | jnpope: At least with a parenthetical addition he would turn up in searching for either spelling. I suggest we go that route until <CG> does develop an alias mapping being that they do it for other players already. |
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Apr-18-22
 | | Sally Simpson: Hi Miss Scarlett,
Yes. Scarlett Moffatt.
And thank you The C.G. gang. (Frazer) I could not meet up with the lad who has the keys to the cabinet today. Easter Holiday. Hopefully later but this mini-quest is now 90% complete. |
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Apr-18-22
 | | MissScarlett: Yes, she is, or yes, she isn't? I googled her a few days ago and she was reported as saying that Tom Hardy, the actor, had invited her to his house to play chess. |
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Apr-18-22
 | | Stonehenge: <James Fraser (Frazer)> is hideous. Let's either go with Fraser or Frazer. I don't know if all Editors can see <ALIASES: (For Editor Use) Fraser James | James Cunningham Fraser>. This means uploading a game with the name Fraser James or James Cunningham Fraser will end up here and not make a duplicate player page. I think the software can be easily made so that the aliases turn up in a search result, I mean Fraser would turn up Frazer as well. In this case we could stick with Fra<z>er, but with both aliases having Fra<s>er, a search for Fra<s>er would also turn up Fra<z>er. If Steve can make it so that also the aliases will be searched... |
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Apr-18-22
 | | jnpope: <Stonehenge: I think the software can be easily made so that the aliases turn up in a search result, I mean Fraser would turn up Frazer as well.> Can we keep the parenthetical addition until they have a working search alias? Again, this "solution" appears to be used already:
Enrique (Heinrich) Reinhardt Victor (Vytas) Palciauskas Once <CG> has a search alias feature then we can remove all of these parenthetical additions, otherwise you have to already know that Leo Forgacs is also Leo Fleischmann if someone comes across this player in pre-1906 and checks <CG> for his games. |
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Apr-18-22
 | | jnpope: Don't get me wrong, I also think it is hideous, but I don't see another work-around to solve the problem. And I really don't see <CG> fixing this in 2022 no matter how easy it would be to implement. |
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Apr-18-22
 | | Sally Simpson: This fun, now it is Frazer in the heading but Fraser in the bio. How about putting Fraser in the heading and '(Frazer)' in a white font after Fraser. We won't see it but the system will when it does a search and pick up all the Frasers and Frazers. |
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Apr-19-22
 | | Stonehenge: Just to be clear: I didn't change his bio or his name. |
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Apr-19-22
 | | Tabanus: Most records have Fraser, incl. a private Dean Fraser family tree. |
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Apr-19-22
 | | Stonehenge: We should be able to add aliases. So we can change his name to Fraser and add a Frazer alias. A search feature that also searches for aliases would be excellent. |
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Apr-19-22
 | | Sally Simpson: Hi Tabanus,
<Most records have Fraser, incl. a private Dean Fraser family tree.> This we know but he appears to be wanted known as Frazer, accepted chess awards engraved Frazer, has a medal named after him as Frazer a number of his chess games are recorded as Frazer, hopefully I'll be adding a whole lot more soon and his obituary refers to him as Frazer. That search feature for an alias should also pick up women who have married and changed their name. Most female players keep their chess playing names but some take their husbands name or slightly alter it as in 'Keti Arakhamia-Grant' where a search for either 'Arakhamia' or 'Grant' find her games. (maybe...and this is a guess....our James Fraser had a sex changed and married a Mr Frazer.) |
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Apr-19-22 | | Z free or die: Thanks <jn> for all that research on actual games in the literature. If I were to include such games in Z-base, which uses Fraser, I would certainly include a <Note> mentioning the form used in the actual source. FWIW - I am not against using parenthesized format, though I understand the general reluctance. We do already do this (on <CG>) for a couple of female players - but there's one case of a female GM(?) who was married at least three times to various chess players - which would require a rather bulky name. PS - It's hard to read, but ILN (1872-12-28) p639 has both <Dr. Fraser> and <Dr. Frazer> in the same paragraph describing recent events at the Edinburgh CC. https://books.google.com/books?id=6... |
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Apr-19-22 | | Z free or die: There's really no question, at least in my mind, that his peak presence as a chess player was during <Dundee (1867)>. During this period he certainly was known as <Dr. Fraser>. Harding uses that form, as does <ChessBase>. (I wonder about Renette - did the good doctor ever play him?) The bio is a bit confusing, suggesting he changed his name back to Fraser, but then includes an obit with Frazer. FWIW - his death notice in <The Westminster Chess Club Papers> uses Fraser. https://books.google.com/books?id=B... In point of actuality, we're inferring his intention to change his name to Frazer, originally from the name of a medal. We don't really concretely know what his intentions were, short of finding a letter by him, or legal papers effecting the change, or perhaps some second-hand account of his desire (which again, we don't really have). . |
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Apr-19-22
 | | Sally Simpson: I have just submitted a game between Dr Frazer and George Fraser. Here is a how the newspaper reported it. (no year given I've guessed at 1868) https://www.redhotpawn.com/imgu/blo... It is from the Glasgow 'Herald' 16/Nov/1872 (details were pencilled in at the side of the game. Other clipping from the book when shown are from the Glasgow Herald )
but as you can see no date for when the game was actually played. Picture of details I took the date and publication from. https://www.redhotpawn.com/imgu/blo... We can now add in to the Frazer claims he submitted problems under Frazer. https://www.redhotpawn.com/imgu/blo... That pic is a mate in 4 submitted by our lad named as Dr.Frazer. (no date, not even sure what publication it is) but it has problem No. IV so if I do some back tracking I may find it.  click for larger view
White to play and mate 4
Next clipping https://www.redhotpawn.com/imgu/blo... is our lad being called Frazer and also Frazer in the notes. Fraxer v Unknown
No date of game , no opponents name, no publication details and so no date of publication.
Not sure if you want it but here it is.
[Event "?"]
[Site "Edinburgh (SCO)"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "James Cunningham Frazer"]
[Black "N.N."]
[Result "1-0"]
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nd4 4. Bc4 Nxf3+ 5. Qxf3 Qf6 6. Qc3 Ne7 7. O-O Nc6 8. d3 g5 9. Be3 d6 10. f4 g4 11. fxe5 Qxe5 12. Bxf7+ Ke7 13. d4 Qg7 14. Bb3 Kd8 15. Nd2 h5 16. Rf7 Qg6 17. Raf1 Bg7 18. e5 dxe5 19. d5 Ne7 20. Bc5 Nf5 21. d6 cxd6 22. Qa5+ b6 23. Bxb6+ axb6 24. Qxb6+ Ke8 25. Qc6+ * |
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Apr-19-22
 | | Sally Simpson: Hi Z,
<FWIW - his death notice in <The Westminster Chess Club Papers> uses Fraser.> Whilst going through the scrapbook I took the above items from some chap called E.H. fired into the Westminster Papers on a matter regarding chess. E.H. referred to them as the 'Wastebasket Papers.' |
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Apr-19-22
 | | Sally Simpson: ( and I've spelt Frazer 'Fraxer' maybe use that from now one.) |
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Apr-21-22 | | Z free or die: <<Sally> E.H. referred to them as the 'Wastebasket Papers.'> OK, that's good for a rye smile, maybe even a slight chuckle. |
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Apr-21-22 | | Z free or die: FWIW - all of the games <CG> has in the db, currently (pre-1868), were published under <Dr. Fraser>. Did he marry? Did he have descendants?
If he did, what were their surnames, I wonder?
. |
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Apr-21-22 | | Alan McGowan: Fraser did marry, but I have been unable to find any details in the Scottish or English records (still working on it). Fraser (medical Student), wife Emily and son James are in the 1851 Scotland census. Same spelling on 1861 and 1871 census records. They had two sons: James, born 1850, survived, and Alfred Horace, born 1852, died 1854. James was the informant for the deaths of both his father and mother (1887). His signature is on both documents as J.C.D. Fraser (James Chalmers Dean). He was a minister at Banchory, Aberdeenshire. |
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Apr-21-22 | | Alan McGowan: Correction to type: Alfred Horace Fraser born June 1854, died October 1854 |
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Apr-21-22
 | | Sally Simpson: I see the name has gone back to Fraser. (A search for Frazer still brings up one other Frazer.) It appears the Frazer - Fraser game I submitted may have got itself lost during the matter with the certificate. As I said earlier no date is given for the game from the source, GWH 16/Nov/1872. I've gone for 1868 suggesting than an '?' be added. https://www.redhotpawn.com/imgu/blo... [Event "Club Game"]
[Site "Edinburgh (SCO)"]
[Date "1868.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "James Cunningham Frazer"]
[Black "George Brunton Fraser"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[Source "Glasgow Weekly Herald, November 16, 1872") 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. b4 Bxb4 5. c3 Bc5 6. O-O d6 7. d4 exd4 8. cxd4 Bb6 9. Re1 Na5 10. Bxf7+ Kxf7 11. Ng5+ Kf8 12. e5 Nc6 13. Re4 dxe5 14. d5 Nf6 15. Ba3+ Kg8 16. d6 cxd6 17. Bxd6 Bxf2+ 18. Kh1 Qb6 19. Nc3 Nd4 20. Bxe5 Nxe4 21. Ncxe4 Be3 22. Rb1 Bg4 23. Rxb6 Bxd1 24. Rxb7 Bxg5 25. Rxg7+ Kf8 26. Nxg5 Re8 27. Rf7+ 1/2-1/2 |
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Apr-22-22
 | | jessicafischerqueen:
<Geoff>
You wrote: <It appears the Frazer - Fraser game I submitted may have got itself lost during the matter with the certificate.> I really doubt that is possible eh. I don't think it was the kind of security problem that might cause data loss- more of a forgetting to update a security certificate. ================
I believe your <Frazer v Fraser> pgn is sitting in the processing lineup under your name on the editor's page. It shows you have submitted a 699b file, but the page will not give me access to the pgn because <MissScarlett> has your name "signed out" at the moment. I doubt this was done on purpose- there is a longstanding and really irritating bug in which the editor page refuses to recognize that an editor has signed out of a submitting member's account. <MissScarlett> if you remember I posted a "hard refresh" fix a while ago on how to prevent this from happening. It happened again to me recently, a few days ago in fact. Usually it works, for me at least. 1. Sign out of cg.com
2. Clear browser cache
3. Reboot computer
4. Go to editor page
5. Sign yourself in manually- your own name will be the default sign in, but sign yourself in manually anyways. I do this by signing myself out, and then signing myself back in- manually. 6. Close the editing page.
7. Open the editing page and repeat step 5 above. 8. Now you should not have any fellow member's account "frozen" because of a bogus "signed out" message. So if you do these steps I believe <Geoff's> Frazer v Fraser pgn will become visible to all editors again, instead of just you. |
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Apr-22-22
 | | Sally Simpson: "...because <MissScarlett> has your name signed out" at the moment." Typical.
Obviously an attempt to withhold hardcore genuine evidence that Frazer is the name. The academics have a name for such people who keep things from others because it does not fit in with their own view of the world. Evasive Hiding. Me (and Dr Frazer) are the victims of evasive hiding.
I will let it go this time but next time I'll seek financial compensation and counselling. No wonder every time I try to post a game I feel like I am facing a Spanish Inquisition.
People are signing my name out (what ever that means). I demand to be signed back in! |
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Apr-22-22
 | | MissScarlett: Is this what you're looking for?
J C Fraser vs G B Fraser, 1868 |
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Apr-22-22
 | | Sally Simpson: Thank You.
And you too Jessie for rapping the knuckles of Miss Red. I doubt if I will ever recover from having my name 'signed out' and left shivering and forgotten in the cold like a Dickens orphan. I was going to raise a correction slip suggesting Dr Fraser be changed to Dr Frazer but having discovered this site is prone to and no doubt rife with elusive hiding (the new buzz word.) I too will play the elusive hiding game and withhold any new information I have on this or any other matter. |
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