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Jul-01-06 | | TheGladiator: <notyetagm> Your point being what? I suggest you reread my post. Executive summary: His big leap is due to a flaw in how (or rather WHEN) his rating has been calculated. Regarding top 10: 1) He's not there yet. 2) To be a "regular", he's got to be in top 10 many times, as in "regularily". |
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Jul-01-06 | | notyetagm: <TheGladiator> I was responding to your comment about Navara being in the Top 10 "in a few years". He is almost there -now-. And yes, I understand your point about the rating mis-reporting, but Navara has still played -outstanding- chess for the past year. Have a look at his great Olympiad wins over Svidler (40 ♖xc4!) and Kozul (♖xe5!!) if you doubt his ability. That glitch with his rating computation does not help him win games OTB like this. |
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Jul-01-06 | | notyetagm: <TheGladiator> And Navara just had a tremendous <2786> performance at the Turin Olympiad, the 7th best performance rating at the event. And this TPR is independent of -his- rating so that rating glitch has nothing to do with Navara's outstanding Turin TPR. Navara may have gotten a lucky break to help boost his rating but his 2786 TPR on Board 1 at the Olympiad was no fluke. |
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Jul-01-06 | | TheGladiator: <notyetagm> Well, I never said that it would take Navara years to enter the top 10 FOR THE FIRST TIME (he might do that very soon, for all I know.) I said, quote: ".. I think Navara will be a <regular> in the top ten alongside Karjakin, Radjabov and Carlsen in a few years." Navara is currently in top 15 (and for the first time ever), but he's not a regular in the top 15 until he's been there quite a few times, see? Besides, if I doubted Navara's ability, would I expect him to ESTABLISH himself amongst the world top 10?!? (The key word here is REGULAR.) Maybe it's a bit late where you are, because I feel that you have some problems reading exactly what I write. If you skip key words, you're bound to arrive at the wrong conclusion. I think Navara is great, I love his play, but I also stick to every comment I've given above. |
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Jul-01-06 | | notyetagm: <TheGladiator: ... So Navara got lucky and found, not the easy way out, but an easy (easier) way in-to the 2700 club...> I just found this comment insulting to someone who recently had a 2786 performance at the Olympiad, that's all. |
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Jul-01-06 | | TheGladiator: <notyetagm> I don't think his 2786 TPR was a fluke (but I still think Anand is better than Navara :) My initial objection was that IN REALITY Navara was already almost 2690 BEFORE the july list (he was actually and "officially" underrated) so his rating jump into 2700-territory IN REALITY was from ca. 2690 to ca 2720, which some ppl certainly have done before. His january and april rating was definitely WRONG, due to the very late calculation of three 2005-tournaments. And once again: of course Navara has done great the last year, of course Navara is a great player, etc. etc., but that was beside my point. Those were my last words on the subject. Cya on Carlsen's page! |
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Jul-01-06 | | notyetagm: <TheGladiator: <notyetagm> Observe the following:
I just had a look at the details of Navara's rating gain. It turns out that he's been underrated (in the truest sense of the word) for the half past year, because ca. 30 of the points he's gained now, are from tournaments played BEFORE nov 1st 2005, meaning that his official rating has been 30 points too low in the two previous periods, making it somewhat easier for him to gain rating.> Could you give an example tournament? It seems to me that you do not know that <when you play in a league, you do not get the ELO points that you have earned until after the league is over>. It was my understanding that Navara gained a boatload of points from his outstanding performances in various chess leagues, like his 6/6 in the British 4NCL. There is nothing illegitimate about him just now gaining rating points from 4NCL victories last Sept/Oct because that is how chess leagues affect rating. |
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Jul-01-06 | | notyetagm: ... and these chess leagues just finished in May and so his rating points earned there would not show up until July 1 2006, even if he beat Kasparov in the 4NCL last September. |
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Jul-01-06 | | TheGladiator: I intended to stop, but... ;)
Your point about chess leagues is valid, in the sense that it actually was correct to delay the rating calculation until now. (I've played in local chess leagues for more than a decade, so I know it's got a somewhat strange effect on rating calculation.) This also invalidates my point about Navara being "officially" underrated - he wasn't. (In reality, obviously he was!) Still, since FIDE obviously calculates league tournaments based on ratings at tournament start date, this is very advantageous for players that are improving at a fast pace (like Navara, assuming that the other players don't develop at the same pace), due to the long period between start and end date. In the Norwegian rating system (which is the other system I know pretty well - I've implemented 95% of its rules (in computer programs) for use on blitz games in my club) - rating is always calculated based on the latest known number, not the latest published number at tournament start (like FIDE does). For players improving fast, team league games aren't equally advantageous, assuming they also play "normal" tournaments (which adjust their rating) during the league. So I guess Navara made a quite huge rating jump after all, even though the jump still was based on games from a period of more than 6-7 months, which is much more than the standard 3 between two FIDE rating lists. At no time have I meant or communicated that there is anything "illegitimate" in Navaras rating jump, nor have I insulted (or meant to insult) Navara or his fans. I just wanted to look behind the numbers to explain a jump of 60+ points in three months, and certainly we've found one explanation: the period wasn't three months, but rather 6 or 7. Still, I must admit that I was a bit on the quick side, when I looked at Navara's tournaments, because I kind of missed the implications of the 2005-tournaments being leagues... Anyway, it'll be very interesting to see how Navara performs now that the other players realize that he's become a hot shot! |
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Jul-02-06 | | notyetagm: <TheGladiator> Yes, I totally agree with you that it is strange how chess league changes are not counted until after after the league is over. I learned this following the Bundesliga. Someone said something like "Anand is going to gain X points when the Bundesliga <is over> based on his 5.5/6 performance <so far>". And Navara's 60.8(!) point increase is simply incredible. To go from 2660 to 2720 in one rating period is astonishing. But Navara has been tearing up the chess leagues all over Europe (Britian, Germany, Czech) for some time now without being rewarded for his great performances. Now he has received what he worked so hard to achieve, a 2700-rating. |
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Jul-02-06 | | notyetagm: Navara's excellent win over Bologan from the British 4NCL, which he annotated in a recent issue of New In Chess magazine: [Event "BCF-chT 0506 (4NCL)"]
[Site "Birmingham"]
[Date "2005.10.22"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Navara,David"]
[Black "Bologan,Viktor"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Eco "A20"]
1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 c6 4.Nf3 e4 5.Nd4 d5 6.cxd5 Qxd5 7.Nc2 Qh5 8.d3 Bh3
9.Bxh3 Qxh3 10.Ne3 Na6 11.dxe4 Rd8 12.Qc2 Bc5 13.e5 Nd5 14.Nxd5 Qg2 15.Rf1 Rxd5 16.a3 Bd4
17.Nd2 Bxe5 18.Nc4 Bd4 19.Bf4 0-0 20.0-0-0 Bxf2 21.e4 Rxd1+ 22.Rxd1 Nc5 23.Ne3 Bxe3+ 24.Bxe3 Qxc2+
25.Kxc2 Nxe4 26.Rd7 b5 27.Rc7 a5 28.Rxc6 f5 29.Rb6 g5 30.Rxb5 f4 31.gxf4 gxf4 32.Re5 fxe3
33.Rxe4 Rf2+ 34.Kc3 e2 35.b4 a4 36.Kd2 Rf3 37.Rg4+ Kf7 38.Rg3 Rf2 39.Rh3 Kg6 40.Ke1 Rf1+
41.Kxe2 Ra1 42.Rc3 Ra2+ 43.Kd3 Rxh2 44.Kc4 h5 45.Kb5 h4 46.Kxa4 Kf5 47.b5 Rb2 48.Ka5 Kg4
49.a4 h3 50.Kb6 Rb1 51.Rxh3 Kxh3 52.a5 Kg4 53.a6 Kf5 54.a7 Ra1 55.Kb7 1-0 |
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Jul-02-06 | | Mameluk: <The Gladiator> Of course, Elo system is not perfect, but it is impossible to count ratings every week. Some leagues already made it to send autumn part to January list and spring part to July. For example Czech league, but not this year. Navara in fact gained cca 20 points in autumn, 20 in spring and 20 in Olympiad. If he played in Olympiad with 2698 rating, he would not gain 20, but 8!! Elo points, which is simply scaring. But let´s not pretend Navara is the first to use this, almost all young players in the past did more or less the same. Now he will play not the strongest opposition in Greek league and Czech open, and it can have some flashback effect, because he would easier hold 2700 rating, than 2719. So this will be a test. Btw: Czech open in Pardubice, the greatest braingames festival in the world, in the city wit great and inexpensive beer, A open this year with Navara, Najer, the world No. 28 and second biggest surprising climber, Polish junior No 1 Wojtaszek (2622), Czech junior No 1 Laznicka (2602),the Russian junior No 1 Tomashevsky (the lowest rating of the three:):):)) and Iordachescu 2603, Sebag... Sadly this year without me, and that will even increase the strength of the tournament. |
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Jul-02-06 | | Mameluk: <Prugno> Navara certainly puts the definition crazy genius into another dimensions. I have never seen Ivanchuk or Huebner, but I believe David can easily take their title. Seeing his behaviour, you would send him to a hospital, but reading his articles you see how intelligent and sensible person he is. And he is very nice to his opponents, doesn´t wish them bad, doesn´t try any tricks. Even in a blitz, when he overlooks something, he catches his head instead of pretending it is a deep combination, he simply plays against pieces and time. <notyetagm> I´d love to see those annotations, cause the game looks completely crazy to me. I liked much more his marathon game against Miton from 4NCL. |
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Jul-02-06 | | fxenderby: <Mameluk>, right on the dot, my friend. i had never watched an elite tournament before i went to wijk aan zee this year. and the oddity of the boy's behavior, his clothes, his walking up and down with one finger streched out in one hand and two in the other, his freaky benign smile frozen on his face, was only matched by the overall ineluctable impression of "niceness" one got from him. he really looked kinda sweet. and i am awfully glad he's now officialy a "super GM". besides that, if you read his comments on his own web page, you have to admit that guy is one hell of a humble quiet person. this way, he's sort of an anti-carlsen (don't get me wrong, i love carlsen,i have his autograph!), because the norwegian kid looks and acts like the standard haughty teenager.. cheers to both. |
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Jul-02-06 | | fxenderby: one more thing.. i don't know huebner, but i'm brazilian, and mecking has to be the best bet to find someone as weird looking and as "logical" as navara.. |
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Jul-03-06 | | DutchDunce: Anyone know where there's a pic of this guy? I love his FIDE card...he's looking straight down! |
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Jul-03-06
 | | tamar: Navara is shown in a couple of pictures on the Corus site http://www.coruschess.com/gallery.p... |
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Jul-04-06 | | fxenderby: <dutchdunce> (that's strange..) a nice old google images search will give you the picture you want. he's just like an old student of mine.. |
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Jul-04-06 | | Mameluk: Navara starts in Greek league on www.chessfed.gr/teams2006 with win against Gelashvili and today is winning against Dreev. Hopefully he will keep it going. |
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Jul-05-06 | | notyetagm: <Mameluk: Navara starts in Greek league on www.chessfed.gr/teams2006 with win against Gelashvili and today is winning against Dreev. Hopefully he will keep it going.> Could you please post PGN for these games? Thanks.
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Jul-05-06 | | you vs yourself: <Navara is apparently autistic.> Wow! If that's true, this guy's story is even more inspiring than the kid that shot 20 pts in 4 mins. I think it's time to get this story out to ESPN. |
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Jul-06-06 | | fxenderby: apparently he's either autistic or has some issues with ireland.. check this out The Czech tem are staying in the same hotel as us and their board 3 is David Navara, a GM rating 2567. David is autistic and usually autistic people excel in one particular sphere and David's is abviously chess. <http://limerickchessclub.com/smNews...; now, seriously, that would explain lots about his personal behavior and his "sweet" looks. and that comes from someone who has himself bem suspected autistic in his childhood.. |
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Jul-06-06 | | cotdt: autistics and aspies in chess are nothing unusual IME, but maybe this guy is especially so. |
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Jul-06-06 | | acirce: Yeah, there are degrees of course. There is autism, high-functioning autism, and Asperger's, once again with significant individual differences. (Some say Asperger's and HFA is the same, but I think they should be separated.) I've got an Asperger diagnosis myself, but definitely functioning much better than most autistics, and indeed better than many aspies too. |
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Jul-06-06 | | cotdt: i think not only does the autistic tendencies of chess players help their obsession for chess, but it also helps in the concentration and calculation of the moves. there are too many chess players to name that would quality for asperger's, but i think being severely autistic makes it difficult to learn positional concepts in chess. <I've got an Asperger diagnosis myself, but definitely functioning much better than most autistics, and indeed better than many aspies too.>
that's what you think <acirce>, but you are biased and to others you may seem completely unresponsive! not related to david navara, but my brother is an autistic (not asperger's but severe austism) and he's an amazing chess player and piano player. he's a tactical genius but his positional play is not on par with mine. |
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