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Aug-18-13
 | | al wazir: <nok: I don't know, but I know people circulating clockwise in museums are annoying.> Good point. I believe that circulation in museums and supermarkets is usually (always?) counterclockwise. Query: Do they go around the other way in Britain and other countries of the Commonwealth? Do racehorses? |
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Aug-20-13
 | | al wazir: Time's up.
Automobile races in the U.K. run clockwise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R63C... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:T...
It figures. Race car drivers stay as close to the inside rail as they can, and in the U.K. they sit on the right side. |
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Aug-21-13
 | | Sneaky: In poker, you deal and bet in a clockwise order. In Monopoly, you move your token clockwise. |
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Aug-21-13
 | | al wazir: <Sneaky>: Dealing and bidding in bridge goes clockwise too. Maybe play in all card games does? |
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Aug-21-13 | | Shams: Wikipedia never fails to amaze:
<The players of a card game normally form a circle around a table or other space that can hold cards. The game orientation or direction of play, which obviously is only relevant for three or more players, can be either clockwise or counter-clockwise. It is the direction in which various roles in the game proceed. Most regions have a traditional direction of play, such as:Counter-clockwise in most of Asia and in South America. Clockwise in North America and Australia.
Europe is roughly divided into a clockwise area in the north and a counter-clockwise area in the south. The boundary runs between France, Germany, Austria (mostly), the Czech Republic, Poland, Ukraine and Russia (clockwise) and Portugal, Spain, Switzerland, Italy, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Turkey (counter-clockwise). Games that originate in a region with a strong preference are often initially played in the original direction, even in regions that prefer the opposite direction. For games that have official rules and are played in tournaments, the direction of play is often prescribed in those rules.> |
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Aug-21-13 | | Abdel Irada: <Shams: Wikipedia never fails to amaze: <The players of a card game normally form a circle around a table or other space that can hold cards. The game orientation or direction of play, which...>> What alarms me is that I've read that page before. In its entirety. What I *can't* recall is why. It had something to do with a conversation here or on <Kenneth Rogoff>, but I don't remember the particulars. ∞ |
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Aug-22-13 | | PinnedPiece: ===Time to Max Rotational Spin===
Here is an idea that occurs to me after thinking some more about the fascinating clockwise-counterclockwise topic introduced to this forum via a stumper by <al wazir>... And it is the PERFECT sort of experiment to do with a world-side population of experimenters. Here went my thinking:
1) The unspoken assumption in the clockwise-counterclockwise puzzle is that "everyone knows" that in the Southern hemisphere, water draining from a bathtub will end up spinning clockwise, and water draining from a bathtub in the Northern hemisphere will end up (the last bits, if not before) spinning counterclockwise. Due to inertia of the water. And the direction of spin of the earth. Right? 2) Also, the effect is strongest at the poles, and weakest just off of the equatorial line. 3) This would have been sufficient for a stumper all by itself, since the common knowledge explained in 1) has <been debunked!> For the "Oh Yeah?" crowd: http://www.snopes.com/science/corio... 3) Or has it? Has a real experiment been conducted along the following lines: a) A normal bathtub is filled with water, all movement is allowed to settle, and the the plug carefully pulled. b) Direction of spin of the last bits are recorded.
c) Time to achieve maximum apparent rate of spin is recorded (e.g. popcorn--anything smaller and it will probably go down the drain-- floating on the water is watched and its rotations per minute counted) to determine stronger effect toward the poles. d) Distance N or S of equator is recorded.
e) Dozens of people participate from all continents and pool their results from several trials each. f) Spreadsheet calculations are used to show a scatter gram analysis to depict true randomness, or <REAL CORIOLIS EFFECT JUST LIKE WITH HURRICANES>! Anyway, that's what occurred to me. This test hasn't been done. Or has it? Who is a statistician here? . |
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Aug-22-13
 | | WannaBe: Another example of why English can be so confusing/difficult: Define biweekly. |
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Aug-22-13 | | Marmot PFL: I have never seen this so called rotation. I just filled up the kitchen sink and opened the drain, and as expected the water simply drained out without spinning. |
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Aug-22-13 | | Marmot PFL: Maybe with a more extensive body of water, such as a bathtub, some spin might be observed. However I will not waste any more water (at this time). |
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Aug-22-13
 | | al wazir: <PinnedPiece: Has a real experiment been conducted along the following lines>. Yes. I once filled up ten sinks with water in a public restroom, waited for the water to become still, and then opened the drains. Six or seven spun one way, the rest spun the other. There was no observable preference one way or the other. If you spend enough time hanging out in public restrooms you can repeat this experiment. The physics behind this result is elementary. To have a noticeable effect on a rotating gyre, the Coriolis force must be bigger than the gravitational force on a fluid element (32 ft per second per second multiplied by the mass of the element) or the centrifugal force (the square of the velocity times the mass, divided by the radius of the gyre). The Coriolis force due to Earth's rotation, whose frequency is 1 divided by 86,400 (the number of seconds in a day) is proportional to the same mass times that same velocity times that rotational frequency. Therefore the ratio of the Coriolis force to the centrifugal force is on the order of 1/86,400 times the radius divided by the velocity. For any plausible radius (on the order of 1 ft) and velocity (at most a few feet per second), this is a tiny number, far too small to observe, and the gravitational force is always much bigger. The direction of rotation is determined by small initial fluctuations in the water and so is almost random. The water spins faster as it drains out because of conservation of angular momentum, the same reason a rotating skater spins faster when he draws his arms in to his body. On the other hand, in an anticyclone (a low-pressure zone) the velocity is only slightly greater but the effective radius can be hundreds of miles, so the Coriolis force is bigger than the centrifugal force. This explains the rotational circulation in anticyclones. In the northern hemisphere this rotation is always counterclockwise, so that England has southwesters and New England has northeasters. (In a tornado, however, the Coriolis force is again negligible but the centrifugal force can be much larger than that due to gravity.) |
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Aug-22-13 | | Abdel Irada: <To have a noticeable effect on a rotating gyre....> I suppose you realize this doesn't apply in <∏∏>'s neck of the wabe. ∞ |
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Aug-30-13 | | PinnedPiece: ==== Zoned out on Time ====
1. Daylight savings and worse
Some countries do not switch to daylight savings during the summer months. That can make nearby neighbors have different times, even within the same time zone. How many "time zones"--or different official clock values--can there be on the earth at any given moment? a) 24
b) 29
c) 33
d) 40
2. Fastest three days: what is the fastest possible time that a resident of earth could see three consecutive calendar days (western calendar) e.g. Monday, Tuesday Wednesday...(Hint-consider the international date line) a) About 32 hours
b) 21 hours
c) 8.5 hours
d) None of the above
3. Which country on the planet will never ever have the same time as any other country, including any country next door, or north/south of it? . |
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Aug-31-13 | | Tiggler: <kellmano: Here's one I made, so I know the solution. 100 people are given a random number between 1 and 20. Each group of people with like numbers forms a group. What size group do you expect to be in?
Like shooting fish in a barrel I imagine to the folks here.> <kellmano> I did not visit this page for more than a month, and hence my tardy reply to the above. Obviously, it was not like shooting fish in a barrel, because no one gave the correct reply! <al wazir> was close: he said 6, but the correct expectation value is 5.95 . "Expectation" has a special meaning in statistics: it means the mean value over a hypothetical infinite series of trials. Thus it is not an integer. If an integer answer is desired, then perhaps we should ask, "what is the most likely size for the group that you are in?" The answer is 5, I believe. In order to evaluate the probabilities for each possible group size (from 1 to 100), one would need to calculate the applicable binomial coefficients that appear in the binomial distribution. For such large numbers, that's not trivial because factorials up to 99! appear. I suppose Stirling's formula might be tried. But I'm too lazy even for that, so I used the Poisson distribution, which approximates to the binomial distribution for sufficiently large numbers. I get the probability for a group of 5 (four other than me) = 0.177195165.
For a group of 6, the probability is = 0.175423213.
These numbers are sufficiently close that one cannot be certain which is larger when the exact binomial distribution is used, but I bet on 5. |
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Aug-31-13 | | Tiggler: On a NIST website
http://www.itl.nist.gov/div898/hand... I found the following for the binomial distribution:
Mode p*(n+1) - 1 <= x <= p*(n+1)
For our example p = 0.05, and n = 99, giving:
Mode 4 <= x <= 5
Thus 4 and 5 must be equally likely. Adding 1 (myself), I get that the most likely number of members of my group are 5 or 6, and these are equally likely. I hope this convinces everyone. I am satisfied, at least. |
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Aug-31-13
 | | al wazir: <Tiggler: <al wazir> was close: he said 6, but the correct expectation value is 5.95.> I think that you, like me, would be astonished to find yourself "in a group" of 5.95 people, unless one of them was missing part of a limb. |
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Sep-01-13 | | Tiggler: <al wazir> I assume that you did actually understand my previous post, and that your reply is purely facetious? OK, all good. |
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Sep-01-13
 | | al wazir: <Tiggler: I assume that you did actually understand my previous post, and that your reply is purely facetious?> Not *purely*. The original question was <what size group would you expect to be in?> I took that to mean "how many *people* would you expect to be in your group?" But if it means "what is the *expectation*," I have that covered: On August 1 I wrote <the expected number in your group is 1 + 0.05x99 = 6, approximately.> |
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Sep-01-13 | | Tiggler: Yes, <al wazir>, I did read all that, and understood it. But did you understand that the answer 6 is not the unique integer answer? |
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Sep-01-13
 | | al wazir: <Tiggler>: Now I don't understand. What do you mean by that? |
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Sep-01-13 | | Tiggler: <al wazir> If you bet on 6 being the number in your group, and I bet on 5, what odds will you give me? If you offer better than evens, I will win, because they are equally likely. (probability = 0.18 in each case). |
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Sep-01-13
 | | al wazir: <Tiggler>: Now I see what you're saying. Is that correct? Let me check it. Again, suppose I go first and find myself in group 1. The probability that m other people join me in my group is P_m = (99!/m!n!) x (1/20)^m x (19/20)^n, where n = 99 - m. P_5 = (99x98x97x96x95/5x4x3x2x1) x 0.05^5 x 0.95^94 = 0.18001783. P_4 = (99x98x97x96/4x3x2x1) x 0.05^4 x 0.95^95 = 0.18001783. Interesting. Thanks for pointing this out. |
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Sep-01-13
 | | al wazir: So in fact, my confidence in my reasoning and in the answer I gave (5.95) was misplaced. The correct answer to the problem as it was posed is that 5 and 6 are the most probable and they are equally likely. It may seem contradictory that the *expectation* is not the same as the most likely number, but it is easy to understand why this is so. It is true that the expected outcome of an event whose probability is given by the familiar symmetric bell-shaped curve is the same as the number where the curve attains its maximum, but here the probability curve is *asymmetric*: there are 15 possible outcomes where the group is bigger than 5.95, but only 5 where it is smaller. This result is in fact quite general. Suppose you are one of a total of T people assigned at random to G groups. By the same reasoning as before, the expected number of people besides yourself in your group is m*, where m* = (T-1)/G. The probability that m other people are with you is given by P_m = (T-1)!/[m!(T-1-m)!] x (1/G)^m x [(G-1)/G]^(T-1-m) = [(T-1)(T-2)x...x(T-m)/m!] x (G-1)^(T-1-m) / G^(T-1), and P_(m-1)/P_m = m(G-1)/(T-m).
Substituting m = T/G yields
P_(T/G-1)/P_(T/G) = (T/G)x(G-1)/(T-T/G) = 1. |
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Sep-01-13 | | kellmano: Thanks <tiggler>. That creates a pleasant situation. From A-level maths I know that expectation has a precise statistical meaning. If it were changed to, what is the most likely size of the group you are in blah blah. The obvious answer is wrong, but then correct again when the fact that it is not a binomial distribution is taken into account. Amusing. If you give the answer of 5 you are either very weak or very strong. |
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Sep-01-13 | | Tiggler: Thanks, <al wazir> for your calculation. It shows that I was wrong to shy away from calculating 99! Because of the cancellation only the first four or five terms of the product are needed, as you so clearly show. It appears that it was a somewhat freak coincidence that the numbers chosen by <kellmano> lead to two exactly equal modal values. Usually this would not happen. |
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