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| Nov-13-07 | | TIMER: <chessgames.com> I am a bit confused about you transferring 'after the start time' with 'after the results were known'. What if someone made bets after the start time (unknowingly) but before results were known? I suppose it is hard to know how soon after the start time to draw the line as cheats might look at the game to get an inkling before betting? |
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Nov-13-07
 | | chessgames.com: <TIMER> When I wrote earlier "after the results were known" I mistyped. I meant to say "after the start of the game" at all times. In the case in question, that was November 11th, 10:00am (USA/Eastern). Incidentally, the reason why we usually close bets before the actual start of the round just to make sure that even if our clock is a minute or two off, nobody gets to see the start of a game. Otherwise people might see that a game is a Petroff and put all their money on the draw, for example. Also, even as I type this, programmers are working on fixing what we now call the "basement exploit" so that will be impossible. Sorry, TD. |
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Nov-13-07
 | | Annie K.: <chessgames.com> I want to say that of the administrations of all the sites I frequent, I like chessgames.com's the most (besides my own of course). ;) Just a "kudos" for fairness, conscientiousness, goodwill and good communication skills from somebody who also likes to complain every once in a while. :) |
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Nov-13-07
 | | Annie K.: <TD> Wow, a historic moment! Good luck with your new career choice! ;) |
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| Nov-13-07 | | technical draw: Thanks <Annie K.> Since my scam was discovered (actually it was squealed) I have turned over a new leaf. I will play to win and instead of calling me the "cellar king" you can start callingl me the "stellar king". The front runners: Be afraid, be very afraid. |
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Nov-13-07
 | | Chessgames Bookie: Two items of good news, ChessBookie players.
First, the so-called "basement exploit" is now impossible. You will only receive one loan from the Loanshark per day, if you qualify for one. Second, we've had a review of what's called the "Las Vegas Sportsbook Rules". Some of these rules have now officially been incorporated into the game in order to make this as realistic of a gambling simulation as possible. They can be found in a section titled "Discrepancies/Disputes" of our ChessBookie Game Help Page. <<The following rules are established to provide game continuity in the event of discrepancies, disputes, miscommunications, cancellations, forfeitures, and other exceptional situations.>1. Account balances must be verified by the player upon each log-on to the ChessBookie game, prior to wagering. When you verify and accept your account balance you agree that all previous transactions are correct and you do not have any claims. Claims or disputes must be settled prior to making any further wagers. 2. For betting purposes, the winner of a event will be determined on the date of the event's conclusion. The Chessgames Bookie does not recognize suspended games, protests, scoring amendments, result reversals and overturned decisions for wagering purposes. The official winner at the conclusion of a game shall be the winner for betting purposes. 3. Every effort will be made to ensure that all information available on the Internet site is accurate, however this information is only provided as a courtesy. The player is solely liable to ascertain the correct information for all events. This includes the start time for the games, which players are participating, time controls, coloration, tournament format, and other conditions. 4. If betting is open beyond the start of a event, all bets placed after the actual start time will be graded as "No Action". 5. Wagers on a player who cancels prior to the event are graded as "No Action" and all chessbucks on that player shall be refunded. Wagers on players who forfeit shall be considered losses and no refunds issued. 6. If an error is made in bet payoff, the Chessgames Bookie reserves the right to correct any mistakes or to settle any bets already laid. He reserves the right to refund bets when deemed necessary, irrespective of other conditions listed herein. 7. Accepted bets cannot be cancelled or amended in any way, either by the player or by the Chessgames Bookie, except as otherwise noted. 8. Notwithstanding anything in this agreement, in the event of any dispute regarding a wager or winnings, the decision of the Chessgames Bookie will be final and binding in all matters. > Some comments:
Don't let rule #1 scare you. All this means is that if you think there is a bug in the system that robbed you of money, you have to make a claim immediately. You cannot tell us at the end of a leg that you think you should have received an extra 500 chessbucks for some wager at the start of a leg. We are reasonably certain that there are no bugs in the software therefore we do not expect this rule to be invoked. Also of interest is rule #2, because that exact situation occurred last year for the 5th game of the Topalov-Kramnik world championship. Had this rule been in place at the time, we would have instantly awarded all Topalov bettors with their winnings and not waited on FIDE to painstakingly negotiate a ruling on the game. Please pay special attention to rules #3 and #4: this is confirmation that the decision recently made regarding Liga de Campiones round 8 was sound sportsbook practice. While it is unfortunate that we published incorrect information, it is your responsibility, and not ours, to verify the accuracy of such data. Rules #5-#8 are already established practice for this game and exist in other parts of the help file. We wish everybody a fun and enjoyable end of the Fall Leg, and good luck! |
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Nov-13-07
 | | Annie K.: <TD> Errr, ok. But I only have to start being afraid next leg, right? ;) While we're at it, I will confess that I too have a skeleton in the closet here - and that's not counting the many times in previous legs that I have used the "back in browser" method to get 200 from the Loanshark (didn't realize I could multiply that by betting event), since I sortof considered that a justified compensation for the often late payoffs - but on one occasion I have also placed an (albeit small) wager on a known winning result (betting closed too late like now). The mitigating circumstance was that I was not quite awake at the time - I dragged myself out of bed to make it in time for bets closing, and even though I saw that the event I was going to bet on was already over, I was so grumpy about getting up for it that I placed the bet anyway. Only about half an hour and two coffees later, was I awake enough to realize what I have done... and I was very VERY embarrassed to say the least. :( Thankfully, like now, the bet was simply refunded, although I wouldn't have complained even if the Bookie had decided to forfeit it - I don't actually approve of cheating. I can only claim temporary insanity on that one! :\ (Yeah, I know there are several people who would like to say now that there was nothing "temporary" about it!) :p |
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Nov-13-07
 | | Chessgames Bookie: Placing a wager on an event which has already begun is not cheating per se, but it does create a little more work for us when the time comes to issue refunds. |
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| Nov-13-07 | | Ragh: <TD> Congrats on retaining the Cellar King title by ruthlessly scraping out your opposition yet again. -4000 in the last 4 days!! As they say - "Make hay while the Sun shines". With all the fixes going in, its pretty much post-sunset phase now. So, what a coincidence.. Great timing! And how about this idea for your next project..
"How I built my Mafia empire using <Basement Exploit 2007>", Authored by the Don of Dungeons. :) |
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| Nov-13-07 | | TIMER: Also I learnt a lesson to maybe try to always make your bets as soon as possible if you know for sure what you are going to bet on and you have enough chessbucks availiable. There is no point knowing for sure but just get refunded due to being too late - the chessbookie can't read your mind! (based on the odds I would have made around 3000 chessbucks profit getting me close to a comeback again- I have since lost hope and thrown thousands away carelessly) Also only bet on what you know best- if I had done this I would be worth 15,000 chessbucks by now as I have done very well on the supertournaments. (being only allowed to bet 200 at a time made me bet on everything, and I stupidly threw away 10,000 in a week on random bets when exams were on my mind- another obvious lesson- just don't bet at those times!) |
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| Nov-13-07 | | pawnofdoom: <technical draw> Well the scam doesn't really work on new computers. On my computer, when you press BACK the page automatically refreshes before loading, so it's impossible to borrow from the loanshark twice a day without returning any money. But for older computers, I guess, thepage doesn't refresh at all and the old information is still displayed, so the result is that the loanshark still thinks that money has not been borrowed yet. |
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| Nov-13-07 | | technical draw: I hereby give permission to CG.com to call the <Basement exploit> <TD's Scam>, so I will be immortalized for future players. (by the way I tried to use the scam again but got a hearty rebuff from a now red faced loan shark, but no cash!) |
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| Nov-13-07 | | malthrope: Great job <Chess Bookie> :-) Once I realized that you had full control of the actual timing of all the bets made then you could recalculate the pool and adjust everything accordingly and thus make a bad situation as fair as humanly possible (re: 'Liga de Campeones' - the infamous round #8). Also, I'm very pleased that you can finally plug up all the loopholes! (Loanshark had a sweet loose gold tooth). ~lol~ Top drawer! :-) Also, since we don't have a 'Spice Tourney' forum to post in - I'm posting this here (since it's related to the betting game). This morning (Tuesday, Nov 13) the makeup game from Round #1 between 'Becerra & Miton' which ended in a short draw. Plus, for some unknown reason they also played a scheduled round #10 pairing between 'Hoyos & Lugo' which was won by Lugo, 0-1. It maybe that one of the players had requested to leave a day early since it doesn't involve the 2nd makeup game from round #2 between 'Miton & Hera' yet to be played. I expect that game to be played either tomorrow or the next day. I'll monitor Susan Polgar's BLOG and the Monroi website in case I pickup any more info on this last outstanding game. Also, why 'Hoyos & Lugo' played their Round #10 game today instead of on the scheduled date of Nov 16th this coming Friday. Figured you might miss this one and schedule a Round #10 bet for it in which the result (0-1) was already known. <wink> Here is the URL link to this mornings chess games... // http://www.monroi.com/wdc/round.php... Best Regards, - Mal
PS: <TD> welcome back to the grand fight! :^) PPS: <Annie K. [...] I don't actually approve of cheating. I can only claim temporary insanity on that one! :\> I just knew <Annie K.> and I had something in common! ~lol~ (re: Mal's temporary lapse of betting insanity every other week as I continually tread my way up the Leaderboard hill again and again!)... ;-) |
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| Nov-13-07 | | Judah: Hey, <Bookie>, I don't know what you've done to the Loan Shark, but he won't lend me any money at all. He says he's lent me today already, BUT IT'S A LIE!! :-( |
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Nov-13-07
 | | Ron: Hello <chessgames Bookie> There is a bet of mine that did not settle yet:
SPICE Cup: Rd 2: Miton vs Hera : Nov-10-07
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| Nov-13-07 | | malthrope: <<Ron: Hello <chessgames Bookie>
There is a bet of mine that did not settle yet:
SPICE Cup: Rd 2: Miton vs Hera : Nov-10-07> ><Ron> read my post just below it's a makeup game (not played yet)... ;-) - Mal |
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Nov-14-07
 | | chessgames.com: <Judah> Try again please. Sorry about the inconvenience. |
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| Nov-14-07 | | TIMER: It is funny actually, if I had lost those bets that were refunded, I would have felt so much better about it, and may have still tried to stage a comeback. It was just so hard when you need all the luck you can get and then this happens when - it makes you lose all motivations. 2 or 3 thousand extra chessbucks is just such a lot to make on 200 chessbuck maximum bets. It was extremely bad luck that such an earner was the one to be refunded. I just wanted so much to get back what I threw away in that mindless week, and I could well have done it.
Not another championship leg where due to my stupidity I start with 10 times less (I could even have won the championship last time and did not even secure myself top ten there either!) I think that I will speak no more of it as others will probably be sick of me. |
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| Nov-14-07 | | unsound: Man, I thought 5000 chessbucks was going to be safely top 10 at the end of the leg. The competition here's brutal. |
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Nov-14-07
 | | Sneaky: Don't be fooled into thinking "It paid off at 9:1 odds, if I had bet 200 I would have gotten 1800 in return!" Had you bet 200, then the odds wouldn't have been 9:1 anymore. |
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| Nov-14-07 | | TIMER: <Sneaky> I know what you mean, but I am using it as a rough estimate bearing in mind others may bet on other results too like they did earlier so it would tend to balance out if you bet early enough. In this case though it might have been a lot like me who would have bet on Topalov winning the rest draws but hadn't got their bets in time. Do you think the sample of those who got their bets in time was not representative of how the rest would have wanted to bet then if it had been delayed a day? |
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Nov-14-07
 | | Annie K.: <Bookie> Thanks, but that was an event that had not just started but was actually over. Something I never would have done in my right mind... but apparently irrationality happens. :( BTW the new rules look great, if #1 only means having to make the claim immediately, since waiting for the actual settling of the matter could mean the loss of betting opportunities... so thanks for the clarification! :) <pawnofdoom> actually, whether the page refreshes at each access or not is a browser setting, and has nothing to do with the age of the computer, although perhaps newer computers come equipped with browsers set to different defaults. But these things can always be changed by the users, if they know what they are doing. :) <Mal> I think you just like the challenge of climbing back up each time! ;) BTW there's no need to address me as "Annie K." each time; I'm fine with just "Annie". :) I usually pick the longer handle when I register somewhere just so in case some other Annie shows up later, it will be easier to tell us apart. |
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| Nov-14-07 | | malthrope: <<Annie K. <Mal> I think you just like the challenge of climbing back up each time! ;) BTW there's no need to address me as "Annie K." each time; I'm fine with just "Annie". :)> >Hehehe... It's just like a treadmill in a constant loop as I seemingly keep going forward and somehow always remain in the same spot! ~lol~ Will do Annie. :-) I'm guessing that the 'K' is for Kool! ;-) - Mal PS: <Chess Bookie> - the makeup chess game from the 2nd round between 'Miton vs. Hera' was played this morning and ended up in a short 15 move draw. Here is the Monroi weblink to this game... // http://www.monroi.com/wdc/flashview... |
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Nov-14-07
 | | Chessgames Bookie: <malthrope> Thanks for the info. Winning tickets have been paid off. |
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| Nov-14-07 | | technical draw: Wow, My bad luck week. First they nab me here at chessgames then they grab me in Atlantic City. A man can't make a living these days. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071114... |
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Later Kibitzing> |