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Chessgames Bookie
Member since Feb-10-06 · Last seen Mar-10-21
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   Chessgames Bookie has kibitzed 2101 times to chessgames   [more...]
   Jan-08-21 Chessgames Bookie chessforum (replies)
 
Chessgames Bookie: Thanks for the tip, WinKing. Hope it works because, to tell you the truth, I'm feeling a bit frustrated. ciao, jingo
 
   Jan-08-21 chessgames.com chessforum (replies)
 
Chessgames Bookie: It would be great if we could get the Bookie site set up to start the new leg with the TATA Steel tournament about to begin in a week. Thanks
 
   Dec-26-20 Sargon chessforum (replies)
 
Chessgames Bookie: Sargon, Could we get an adminstrator to close out the Fall Leg of the Chessbookie? Prizes and reset all to $1000, or more if we're not going to get a mid-leg payday? Thanks, jingo Gens una sumus!
 
   Oct-07-20 Norway Chess (2020) (replies)
 
Chessgames Bookie: Please join us at the ChessBookie room for some fun wagering, play money. Tough competition! Altibox Norway 2020, Rd 6: Aronian-Caruana Thanks
 
   Oct-01-20 Kibitzer's Café (replies)
 
Chessgames Bookie: Rub your lucky charm! Time to bet on the Winner of the upcoming Altibox tournament. Altibox Norway 2020: Winner! Gens una sumus
 
   Sep-16-20 Petrosian vs G Stoltz, 1952 (replies)
 
Chessgames Bookie: I had no idea that Kotov won that tournament, and with what a score!!
 
   Sep-15-20 St. Louis Rapid & Blitz (2020) (replies)
 
Chessgames Bookie: And how will Alireza do tomorrow against the Champ? St. Louis Rapid & Blitz, Rd 7 Rapid: Firouzja-Carlsen Place your bet (after checking your crystal ball, of course).
 
   Sep-13-20 Champions Showdown Chess 9LX (2020) (replies)
 
Chessgames Bookie: Speaking of draws, how many today in round 7? Starts in a few hours. Only one in Rd 6 yesterday. Place your bets! Click ChessBookie at the top of the page to play!
 
   Apr-19-20 moronovich chessforum (replies)
 
Chessgames Bookie: Hi moronovich, I'm jingohanson, the new Bookie. The Pick two is for day four of the event, with the games I posted. Sorry about the confusion. I should have put (Day 4) in the description. Thanks for welcoming me. Your suggestions are welcome. Ciao, jingohanson
 
   Dec-23-19 Biographer Bistro (replies)
 
Chessgames Bookie: Just for the record. Annie and Twinlark were volunteers. I posted more on my profile page. 😊
 
(replies) indicates a reply to the comment.

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 366 OF 501 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Sep-16-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  SwitchingQuylthulg: <Bookie> In World Cup R3: Adams - Dominguez, "2-0" covers both Adams winning 2-0 and Dominguez winning 2-0, right?
Sep-16-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Chessgames Bookie: < SwitchingQuylthulg: <Bookie> In World Cup R3: Adams - Dominguez, "2-0" covers both Adams winning 2-0 and Dominguez winning 2-0, right? >

Yes. As long as one player wins by that score, "2-0" will pay. Same goes to the other 2 lines.

- Penguin

Sep-16-15  MarkFinan: I took screenshots of the odds and protected payouts, I'll send them to Ceegee and they can send them to you.
Sep-16-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Penguincw: Uh, <Mark>, if there is legit an error, then I can understand.

However, I think this sentence may be confusing you: "Note: This bet will have 4 winners, so prepare for multi-payoffs."

If a bet is going to have 4 winners, the odds cannot be paid off as listed. That would require taking money from nowhere. Therefore, the odds will be worse than listed (I briefly summed it up above). That is the drawback with having more lines.

The reason why the odds are listed like that (and not changed), is because the software doesn't know that it will be a multi-payoffs situation. I can payoff 1 line, or I can payoff multiple lines.

Sep-16-15  pitapino: The only reason <compatriot battles> got a pool of 15,000 was because of the odds that everyone saw with their eyes on the screen. Now your telling us 'do the math' and don't believe your eyes. I haven't played in a year and a half, this seems unfair the bet should be refunded. You should have explained on the betting page that the odds we were seeing was not accurate.
Sep-16-15  pitapino: Even someone who has played for many years was fooled by the posted odds. Is <wordfunph> getting 14,000 for those two picks? If the answer is no the bet should be null+void.
Sep-16-15  MarkFinan: Exactly!! You really think that because it says 15/1 I can work out it's actually something like 5/4!? It's ridiculous and I aren't the only one who put money on that bet who'll be complaining.
Sep-16-15  pitapino: <Mark> Anything I can do to help keep <FSR> shaking in his boots :)
Sep-16-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: Mark, Mark, Mark. You committed a rookie blunder, and you're not even a rookie.
Sep-16-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Chessgames Bookie: <MarkFinan>, <pitapino>

From what I can piece together, I see you guys noticed that for World Cup Rd 2: Compatriot Battle, the odds were posted as so, but come payoff time, the odds were bs.

I'm not sure how I can make it clearer; there is no error. All I did was select the 4 winners like I was supposed to, and the software did the rest.

If you're wondering what the software did, it took the losing pool (6,576 cbs) and distributed it 4 ways, 1644 cbs/line. It then paid off each line as though the losing pool was only 1644 cbs.

In order for you to receive the odds displayed, the software would have to pull 50,941 cbs out of nowhere.

Notice how the odds displayed are the odds that would've paid <if> only <one> bet won.

Now why isn't this written in the Help Page, and why the odds are not corrected, I don't know.

However, this has been mentioned before:

Chessgames Bookie chessforum (kibitz #7592)

Chessgames Bookie chessforum

This is also not the first time multi-payoffs has happened this leg (actually the 7th or so).

< pitapino: The only reason <compatriot battles> got a pool of 15,000 was because of the odds that everyone saw with their eyes on the screen. >

There could be many reasons why it has a good pool. Maybe people found it interesting, or it was near the end of leg. For this bet, maybe they saw it as "if I randomly place money on a line, I have a 1 in 2 chance of winning <some> money, even if it's not much; compare that to regular bets, which are usually 1:3 or even 1:81).

< I haven't played in a year and a half >

You just registered a month ago.

< You should have explained on the betting page that the odds we were seeing was not accurate. >

I did: "Note: This bet will have 4 winners, so prepare for multi-payoffs."

If you're not sure what that means, just ask. People have done it before, and I have answered them.

< Even someone who has played for many years was fooled by the posted odds. Is <wordfunph> getting 14,000 for those two picks? If the answer is no the bet should be null+void. >

I wouldn't really say <wordfunph> was fooled. All he did was copy and paste the bet.

Now I do have 1 multi-payoff bet out there (World Cup R3: Pick Four (Winners)), but I think that could be the last one this leg.

<TL;DR>: There is no error. That's just the way multiple payoffs work. The odds will be worse than posted. I'm not refunding the bet. If you're not happy, then don't bet on bets with multi-payoffs. If you're not sure of something, ask.

- Penguin

Sep-16-15  MarkFinan: <I'm not sure how I can make it clearer; there is no error. All I did was select the 4 winners like I was supposed to, and the software did the rest.>>

So there is an error. If the software is offering 25/1 on a player winning a game then you should pay 25/1. Am I supposed to know what the odds are when the software doesn't?? That bet should be null and void, I still don't understand why you refunded on the previous days wagers, I aren't the only one fooled by the "software". If I put 10 pounds on Man Utd to score first at the real bookies at 5/1 then I expect my winnings to be 50 quid, I don't see how you aren't getting this. If the odds are 100/1 they're 100/1 otherwise say so.

Sep-16-15  MarkFinan: I've got 580 cb's on Yi at decimal odds of 6.84 to 1. That means I should win over 3k if he wins. If the odds are wrong then now would be a good time to say so?
Sep-16-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Penguincw: (at this point, I'm not even sure which account I should be replying with)

< Mark: So there is an error. If the software is offering 25/1 on a player winning a game then you should pay 25/1. >

I agree. In that situation, only <one> winner is declared, so you will get full odds. In multiple payoffs, you won't.

< Am I supposed to know what the odds are when the software doesn't?? >

The final odds will depend on what the winners are, how many winners there are, and what the odds of the winners are.

< That bet should be null and void, I still don't understand why you refunded on the previous days wagers, >

Sorry, which bet did I refund that I was not supposed to?

< If I put 10 pounds on Man Utd to score first at the real bookies at 5/1 then I expect my winnings to be 50 quid, I don't see how you aren't getting this. If the odds are 100/1 they're 100/1 otherwise say so. >

I don't see how <you> aren't getting this. If you put 10 bucks on something at 5:1 odds, then you will receive 5:1 odds <if> you don't have to split your earnings with another winning line.

The reason why the odds aren't displayed as they <would've> paid, is that the software doesn't know I will pay more than 1 line. It's flexible like that.

< I've got 580 cb's on Yi at decimal odds of 6.84 to 1. That means I should win over 3k if he wins. If the odds are wrong then now would be a good time to say so? >

First of all, the betting hasn't closed yet. But assuming the final line does <display> 6.84:1, you will receive much less than that (about a quarter; exact amount will depend on what the other 3 lines are).

Sep-17-15  pitapino: The odds displayed are the odds that would pay <if> only <one> bet wins, this bet will have 4 winners.

This might be a better explanation than 'prepare for multi-payoffs'.. but I get it now.

Sep-17-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: <MarkFinan: ... After tomorrow I will be back in position, I have 1 tenth of the total amount on Pengerz's "popular bet" which means I'll be back top ten tomorrow.. You watch.>

Looks like you fell a little short:

<229. MarkFinan -1,346>

<MarkFinan: Is the day over yet Frederick? Exactly. By close of business tonight I'll have more cb's than you.>

Not quite:

<5. FSR 7,554>

But you missed the mark by less than 9,000. Good show.

Sep-17-15  MarkFinan: You take me far too seriously, cuddlebumps. I can't even be bothered going into why I thought I would be above you, but I will gladly concede this battle in preparation for the war. Begun the bookie war has 😈
Sep-17-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Penguincw: Flashback about 5 months ago:

< Apr-16-15 Chessgames Bookie: < ... What's the lowest amount of cb's someone has placed top ten with?>

<moppa> placed 10th in Fall 2013 with only 2,711 chessbucks. However, during that leg the Bookie was inactive for much of the time, meaning nobody had time to make a big profit; it can't be fairly compared to other legs.

If Fall 2013 is excluded, the answer is <Ragh>'s c$3,701 from Summer 2011. Note, however, that neither Summer 2011 or Fall 2013 had a Pay Day; the current record for a leg with a Pay Day is <posoo>'s c$6,052 from Summer 2014. >

Chessgames Bookie chessforum (kibitz #8336)

The lowest ever amount someone placed 10th place is 2711 cbs. Excluding the 1000 cbs given at the beginning of the leg, that's just 1711 cbs of profit.

< 10. refutor 3,104 >

Wow, that's just 1104 cbs.

Sep-17-15  MarkFinan: And let's not forget that on my first real effort against the 10k crew, I was the highest placed non 10ker.

How come the Adams game pays out today but the rest of the games pay out tomorrow?

Sep-17-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Penguincw: < How come the Adams game pays out today but the rest of the games pay out tomorrow? >

Firstly, when it says "Sep-18-15", it means by the end of Sep-18-15 <cg> time.

But anyway, that is the only bet where tiebreaks are not a factor. All other bets might not be paid off until tiebreaks are done (that is, pre-R3 bets).

The "SETTLEMENT DATE" is always the last possible date the bet could be settled.

Sep-18-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: I agree that <pitapino>'s suggestion is more informative than the current explanation. You should affirmatively tell people that the posted odds are <not> the real odds since there will be four winners, not one.
Sep-18-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: There's been at least one checkmate at the World Cup: L Dominguez vs F Perez Ponsa, 2015. Has there been an underpromotion? I hope not, and doubt it. See http://bit.ly/1NB3UbO (underpromotions occur in only about .0465% of games in ChessBase database).
Sep-18-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  SwitchingQuylthulg: <FSR> There have been several checkmates and no underpromotions so far.

(Underpromotions are not <that> rare, though; in the Chessgames database, an underpromotion occurs in about 1 in 600 games, or 0.16%. In games between grandmasters underpromotions are even more common. About 4.6% of the games in the Chessgames database include a promotion; this is so different from the 1.5% claimed by Wikipedia for ChessBase that I strongly suspect the latter number is quite simply wrong.)

Sep-18-15  MarkFinan: Unless it's a knight and promotion equals checkmate, an under promotion is pointless.
Sep-18-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: <MarkFinan> There are other instances where underpromotion is useful. http://bit.ly/1UZWiAa Probably the most common is where underpromotion is necessary because promotion to a queen would stalemate.
Sep-18-15  MarkFinan: That's a good point about the stalemate actually, Fred. But that and the knight promotion are the only reasons I'd under promote in a game of chess... Unless you're playing a friend and you've <already> given them rook odds. It's happened, lol.
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