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Chessgames Bookie
Member since Feb-10-06 · Last seen Mar-10-21
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   Chessgames Bookie has kibitzed 2101 times to chessgames   [more...]
   Jan-08-21 Chessgames Bookie chessforum (replies)
 
Chessgames Bookie: Thanks for the tip, WinKing. Hope it works because, to tell you the truth, I'm feeling a bit frustrated. ciao, jingo
 
   Jan-08-21 chessgames.com chessforum (replies)
 
Chessgames Bookie: It would be great if we could get the Bookie site set up to start the new leg with the TATA Steel tournament about to begin in a week. Thanks
 
   Dec-26-20 Sargon chessforum (replies)
 
Chessgames Bookie: Sargon, Could we get an adminstrator to close out the Fall Leg of the Chessbookie? Prizes and reset all to $1000, or more if we're not going to get a mid-leg payday? Thanks, jingo Gens una sumus!
 
   Oct-07-20 Norway Chess (2020) (replies)
 
Chessgames Bookie: Please join us at the ChessBookie room for some fun wagering, play money. Tough competition! Altibox Norway 2020, Rd 6: Aronian-Caruana Thanks
 
   Oct-01-20 Kibitzer's Café (replies)
 
Chessgames Bookie: Rub your lucky charm! Time to bet on the Winner of the upcoming Altibox tournament. Altibox Norway 2020: Winner! Gens una sumus
 
   Sep-16-20 Petrosian vs G Stoltz, 1952 (replies)
 
Chessgames Bookie: I had no idea that Kotov won that tournament, and with what a score!!
 
   Sep-15-20 St. Louis Rapid & Blitz (2020) (replies)
 
Chessgames Bookie: And how will Alireza do tomorrow against the Champ? St. Louis Rapid & Blitz, Rd 7 Rapid: Firouzja-Carlsen Place your bet (after checking your crystal ball, of course).
 
   Sep-13-20 Champions Showdown Chess 9LX (2020) (replies)
 
Chessgames Bookie: Speaking of draws, how many today in round 7? Starts in a few hours. Only one in Rd 6 yesterday. Place your bets! Click ChessBookie at the top of the page to play!
 
   Apr-19-20 moronovich chessforum (replies)
 
Chessgames Bookie: Hi moronovich, I'm jingohanson, the new Bookie. The Pick two is for day four of the event, with the games I posted. Sorry about the confusion. I should have put (Day 4) in the description. Thanks for welcoming me. Your suggestions are welcome. Ciao, jingohanson
 
   Dec-23-19 Biographer Bistro (replies)
 
Chessgames Bookie: Just for the record. Annie and Twinlark were volunteers. I posted more on my profile page. 😊
 
(replies) indicates a reply to the comment.

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 77 OF 501 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Mar-24-07  pawnofdoom: But how is that supposed to get you negative?
Mar-24-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  WannaBe: Borrow money, and lose, borrow more, and lose.... =)
Mar-25-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Chnebelgrind: Too bad ! chessgamesbookie realized early enough that the clocks in Europe did spring forward an hour
Mar-26-07  strifeknot: Heh, that <Sneaky> is awful quiet the last few days.
Mar-26-07  technical draw: Wow! How quickly the mighty fall!
Mar-27-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sneaky: I am officially out of the running.

Good luck, all :(

Mar-27-07  gauer: Amber looks like a battle for 2nd place. How about a trifecta offer for those who can guess in each of: the combined, blind, and rapid standings, pick one person (distinct, for each category) who can come in 2nd, for the categories?
Mar-28-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Chessgames Bookie: ∞ ATTENTION ∞

Tomorrow is the last day that we will take bets for the ChessBookie game for this leg. There will be no bets on Shulman's move (due to the timing) therefore when we compute the leaderboard after the Amber games tomorrow, the final result will determine the 1st ChessBookie World Champion!

We are computing the leaderboard statistics right now so that everybody can see where they stand and make intelligent bets for tomorrow's games accordingly. Currently in the lead is User: Andoy with 22,699 chessbucks.

Many thanks to the hundreds of people who participated in the first year of the ChessBookie game, and best of luck tomorrow!

Mar-29-07  RonB52734: I'm all-in for the last round. It's sink or swim time, folks!
Mar-29-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Chessgames Bookie: Ladies and gentlemen, today being the final day of betting for the Winter Leg we can now announce the first annual ChessBookie Champion.

Coming up from behind in the final round, with a bold 10,000 chessbuck bet on Kramnik's last round draw, finishing with 27,833 chessbucks is none other than longtime chessgames contributor.....

User: iron maiden

<<<<< The 1st ChessBookie Champion of the World ! >>>>>

As the winner of this prestigious title Iron Maiden will receive:

• TWO YEARS of premium membership to Chessgames.com

• His choice of ANY BOOK selected from the fine publisher and vendor of rare and interesting books, Hardinge Simpole http://www.hardingesimpole.co.uk/ (Iron Maiden: just pick the book you want, and email chess@chessgames.com with your choice. Don't forget to include your mailing address so we can have it shipped to you ASAP.)

♖ SILVER AND BRONZE MEDALS ♖

The 2nd and 3rd place finishers User: hairmajorchair (26,900 chessbucks) and User: Andoy (22,699 chessbucks) will both receive a one free year premium membership.

♘ QUALIFIERS ♘

All of the top-10 participants of the Championship Leg are automatically seeded into next year's Championship, as per the rules in the ChessBookie Game Help Page. This includes the top three players named above, plus: barbababa (22,071), kellmano (16,318), Bob72 (15,973), Fredrik (13,858), Shajmaty (13,633), ronaldducalang (13,107), and Rimrock (12,606).

♗ WHAT'S NEXT FOR CHESSBOOKIE? ♗

The Chessbookie will take a short vacation for the next few days and then the Spring Leg for the 2nd year will begin. During this brief intermission we'll use this forum to discuss ideas for possible improvements, rule changes, and other ideas for the upcoming year.

We sincerely would like to thank everybody who participated in the first year of ChessBookie; it was a great experiment which proved to be a lot of fun. We are looking forward to the next year's contest.

Mar-29-07  Ragh: <iron maiden> Congratulations for being the <The First ChessBookie Champion of the World !<<<<>>>>>.
Mar-29-07  iron maiden: <chessgames.com> Wow, you guys are too kind! I thought after my 10,000 chessbuck bet on Kramnik went through that I'd be in the top three, but I didn't expect to be first. Thanks for a well-run contest, as always, and I'm looking forward to defending the title next winter.
Mar-30-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Chnebelgrind: Congratulation to the 1st ChessBookie Champion of the World <iron maiden> and thanks to chessgames bookie for that game, which was engineered in a perfect manner. I also am looking forward to the next year's contest.
Mar-31-07  technical draw: I see a lot of the early (and late) leaders wound up at the bottom. Must have been a lot of heavy betting in the last tournament. Even this cellar dwellar beat some early leaders.
Apr-01-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Chessgames Bookie: While I take a vacation and count my fabulous profits (I finished the Winter Leg with 114,073 chessbucks) we will now have a few days to discuss possible changes for the upcoming year. Many good ideas have been brought up during the first year of ChessBookie which had to be put on hold, since we were opposed to changing the rules in the middle of the game.

First, a general observation: the game reward people who make sensible bets but it also rewards luck. Perhaps its unrealistic to expect anything else from this game, it could just be the nature of the competition.

Here is a short list of potential changes.

<NEW BETTING CAPS>

The betting caps served a great function in discouraging cheating. During the first two legs we had people who signed up dozens of accounts to sway the odds of certain bets ridiculously in their favor. By capping new players to 200 chessbucks, it because very hard to do that.

However, the loose limits for the top players add a lot of luck to the endgame strategy. Maybe different caps could help addess these issues.

<PAY DAY>

This idea is designed to help out people who get bored of the game in the middle of a leg, because they lost all their money. The idea is that all accounts get a boost of chessbucks on some predesignated day, roughly halfway through the leg. Perhaps the boost could be an additional 1000 chessbucks.

Alternately, we could make payday a weekly event. Each Friday you get an extra 200 added to your account, sort of like "passing Go" in Monopoly. A drawback to this approach is that players who don't start at the bginning of a leg may be hopelessly handicapped.

<PRE-SEEDED BETTING POOLS>

The idea here is that the Chessgames bookie will put initial bets in place to automatically have starting odds for the wagers. That way the very first people to bet will see realistic odds for their bet, and they don't need to worry about being stranded without anybody taking up opposing positions. Some rule of thumb could be used, e.g. a typical game between two players might look something like this

• White - 1000 chessbucks
• Black - 750 chessbucks
• Draw - 1250 chesbucks

This is roughly proportional to the stats found on ChessGames.com Statistics Page for the outcome of white/black/draw, except slightly more biased towards draws since our GM games tend to be drawn more than the average game from our database.

Likewise, a Pick-Three could have money seeded, using some rules like this --

• No draws (8) - 2 chessbuck minimum bet
• One draw (12) - 20 chessbuck bet
• Two draws (6) - 200 chessbuck bet
• Draw-Draw-Draw (1) - 300 chessbuck bet

If my math is right that would mean the starting pool for a pick-three would be 1,706 chessbucks with odds ranging from roughly 850:1 (for the no-draw tickets) to 5:1 (for the all-draw ticket).

One benefit of pre-seeding the betting pools is that the game becomes playable regardless of the number of participants--even if only a handful of people were active, they could still try to make money by playing "against the house."

<PRIZES>

Of course we would love to have fabulous prizes for winners and runners up, but there are two problems. First, we simply can't afford it, and second, there are legal ramifications for giving away prizes even if the game doesn't cost anything to enter. Still, we think that offering prizes greatly increases the interest in the game, even if they are small prizes, so we want to do our best in keeping this part of the game.

Apr-02-07  barbababa: <Chessgames Bookie> <NEW BETTING CAPS> I think 200 bettting cap to one bet is good. If the idea of ChessBookie Game is to find out who would be the best better in real life it does not work with the current rules. Several of the top ten players of the previous legs were in the bottom ten after the championchip leg, indicating that the final results are somewhat random. One could have won the championshipleg with a single bet, e.g. 10000 chessbucks to Anand as a winner of Morelia-Linares, a very likely result. If the betting cap would be 200 to everybody, you would have to make at least 100 bets in order to win a leg and they should be on average very good bets. If the betting cap is changed to 200, the advantage of the top ten players of the previous legs must be smaller in the championship leg.

<PAY DAY> I like this idea too. 200 every week sounds better. The new players could get several weeks payment when they start.

<PRE-SEEDED BETTING POOLS> This I don't like. Earlier the house took 5% meaning that most of the players will lose money in the long run, unless they were betting clearly better than average. After pre-seeding there could arise some absurd situation. If the odds were close to correct ones, one could bet 200 to white wins, draw and black wins in every game and win money in the long run.

<PRIZES> :)

Apr-02-07  Elixir of Life: <Chessgames Bookie>

<NEW BETTING CAPS>
I think we should make it 200 for beginners, 500 for players with over 2000 chessbucks, 700 for players with over 3000 chessbucks, and 1500 for those over 5000 chessbucks.

Apr-02-07  Confuse: <Chessgames Bookie> Congratulations on having such a large sum of chess bucks! Now that I know theres a prize involved I am definitely more interested then before =) and congrats to <Iron Maiden>, well done
Apr-02-07  Bob726: <barbara> One bad thing about your idea that new players get payed much more is that people could hack into new accounts and create a lot, and if you have a lot of money there, eg. they added 1500 chessbucks, you could easily change the odds with a 500 dollar bet. Eg, in a game with white /black /draw, lets say you were the "real" account and you voted on a draw. Now, using your fake accounts, you could bet both 500 on both white and black, and thats 1000 chessbucks that swung in your odds.
Apr-03-07  barbababa: <Bob726> Good point. That could actually be a problem that it is so easy to create a new account. Even if there are betting caps, one could create lots of new accounts and bet the maximum (200?) to all PICK-THREE bets, where the odds are sometimes better than 1:100. Again, with one succesfull unlikely result one could win a leg. In the last two PICK-THREEs the odds for the correct bets were 58.84 and 18.65.
Apr-03-07  Troglodyte: I don't see why we should limit the betting caps more. I think being able to bet large sums of money only adds to the dynamics and strategy of the game. The game is about managing your money and assessing risk, so if top players decide to blow away all their money it is their choice. And what is the problem with a person being able to gain a lot of money with one large bet? It is also part of the game and it keeps the top players on their toes. Yes, a bad player could get lucky and win big with one large bet, but if the top players are not just sitting on their winnings but are playing the game it all evens out.
Apr-03-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  chessgames.com: The betting caps for starting players greatly discouraged cheating. Before we had those rules, we saw several cases like this:

1 - Somebody makes a large 10,000 chessbuck bet on a conservative outcome, such as betting on a draw in a certain match-up that is strongly expected to be a draw.

2- Then suddenly, ten new people sign up to chessgames and right off the bat, they run to the ChessBookie game to get their initial 1000, and they all immediately run to the loanshark to get their max-loan of 500.

3 - These 10 new players all decide to make a 1500 bet on either White or Black in the very same game.

4 - Suddenly the draw is paying 3:1 odds or 4:1 odds, whereas 2:3 would be more realistic. As expected, the game is drawn, and now the player who made the initial bet suddenly has 25,000 chessbucks to toss around.

And wouldn't you know it, these 10 new people who just signed up happen to have the exact same IP address as the guy who made the initial 10,000 chessbuck bet!

So the 200 limit for new players serves a very definite purpose, by discouraging cheaters. It's still possible to cheat in the above described way, but the payoff is much less, since each new account can only wager 400 (200 on White; 200 on Black) instead of 1500.

Cheaters ruin the game on many different levels--not only is it just not fair, but it skews the odds. And what really makes ChessBookie a fascinating game, we believe, is how the odds in the game are so often amazingly accurate. Just look at all the wagers where Arno Nickel or Yuri Shulman's move was predicted perfectly in advance!

Apr-03-07  Troglodyte: Just to make it clear, I understand the purpose of betting caps, I just don't think that there is need to increase the limits.
Apr-05-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Annie K.: OK, so there is a very good reason to put a severe limitation on absolutely brand-new beginning players. But since it is unlikely that a cheater would bother to actively play with all his secondary accounts regularly, couldn't the betting caps be raised significantly, closer to the stage of having left the initial 1000 behind?

Or better yet, how about setting the caps to be a function ONLY, or partly, of the frequency of activity (say, number of bets placed on different games - so as not to allow a new account that places 20 bets on different outcomes of a single 'pick three' - to be considered a "veteran player") rather than the resultant net worth?

The problem with the current setup is that it makes it very hard to climb out of a slump if you can only bet tiny amounts on everything, just because you've lost a few large bets previously. It really effectively puts you out of the running for the duration of the leg, and the betting caps have been IME a far worse limitation than the lack of funds, bless Sharkie's heart! ;)

This might also prevent problems with the new way of cheating that might arise if the Payday idea (which is a great one IMO) is introduced - as it is now, cheaters could simply create a bazillion new accounts at the start of the leg, and then just let them sit there for a while and get filthy rich from Paydays alone, until their betting caps will allow their "masters" to use them any way they wish. :\

What say ye, Bookie? ;)

Apr-05-07  RonB52734: I think the betting caps worked quite well. In this final leg (which was the first one that I made a sustained effort in) I started out with c$1,000 and for a while was over c$12,000, competing against people who on day 1 had, and could bet, c$10,000. In the regular legs, it is entirely possible to build your way out of a hole.

The betting caps won't eliminate the duplicate-account cheaters, but it will minimize their ability to affect the odds. And I'm not sure I see a strong reason to tweak the caps to a different number than they are at present.

As someone else has pointed out, the payday idea may make a slight enhancement to the diminished ability of the duplicate-account cheaters to infect the game. Of course, the chessbookie serves a very similar role. I happen to think that the interest charged by the bookie adds a fun element to the game, and keeps it realistic.

On a related note, I sometimes play blackjack on another website for their equivalent of chessbucks. They have a "bonus spin" every so often that is not a part of real blackjack. As you would expect, over the long run, the only "bucks" you have in your account result from the "bonus spin" (the equivalent of a "pay day.") If you play real blackjack over the long run (without counting cards) after all, you are going to lose your money. I find something ultimately unsatisfying about sitting on a large pile of "bucks" that didn't result from what I went there to do -- play blackjack.

In chess betting, sometimes you make a series of bad bets and get in a deep hole. The result of this, in the game, should be exactly that -- you're in a deep hole. That's what the "legs" are for. In other words, cg.com, you've got great legs, and they're enough of a payday for me.

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