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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 13 OF 963 ·
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| Oct-23-06 | | twinlark: I reckon it's these subtleties sometimes that separates the sheepish from the goatees. |
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Oct-23-06
 | | Domdaniel: Hi, everybody. All. Strategists? Anybody?
I'm writing this 7 hours before move-time. Since Bb6 has got 44 of the last 60 votes cast, it seems to be a firm favorite - among later voters, and overall. I plan to post a Strategy Summary, based on posts made here, on the main page 1 hour pre-movetime. One big theme will obviously be the question of Dark Square Bishops, exchanging, etc. Another is the role of the isolated d-pawns. Plus other odds and ends. If there is any positional or strategical theme that you'd like to see included in this summary, please post something here to remind me - anytime in the next 5-6 hours (from noon GMT, 0700 EST, etc). Thanks, fellow strategists. |
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Oct-23-06
| | Domdaniel: Some other themes worth considering:
(1) When is a trap not a trap? Somebody quoted Purdy's definition of a trap - 'if your opponent makes a particular reply, he loses' - but it's not always that simple. There was a Vidmar-Nimzowitsch game in the 1920s (I'll look it up) where Vidmar (White) had a lone pawn on e5 and was castled kingside. Nimzo played ...h5 and ...h4, backed by a Rh8, apparently trying to create a kingside attack. But instead he played ...Rh5 and rounded up the loose pawn with ...Rxe5. Vidmar called this a 'trap'; Nimzo insisted that ...h4 was a good move anyway, and that Vidmar (a strong GM) had blundered by missing one of the threats. Our 'Monad Trap' seems similar, in that the move 19.Bb6 is good even if AN avoids the lines where calamity awaits him. (2) 'Natural' Moves. RookFile is to be commended for his honesty in openly switching to 19.Bb6 after putting so much effort into his earlier choice 19.Bg5. He had believed that the line starting 19.Bb6 Bd8 offered White nothing, but later decided we were doing well after 20.Nd4. A lesser player would have kept quiet about such a discovery, or simply refused to accept it. RookFile's re-evaluation of the position is proof of strength. Earlier, however, he had quoted Capablanca: "Always play the natural move". This is good advice to beginners, but Capa didn't always follow it himself at the highest level of competition. In any case, what's a 'natural' move? Nature, as far as I know, has nothing to say on the subject of chess. And Thorsson's Law of Pragmatism, which I discussed earlier, says that 'ugly' moves are often better than 'natural' ones. So a 'natural' move is best seen as a stage in the chess learning process. A novice should not try to play like Nimzowitsch or Korchnoi - better models are Capablanca and Karpov. You need to learn about harmonious piece development, central control, and direct, purposeful play first. But when you've done that you can try getting devious. Or look for 'bizarre' stuff that actually works. The Strategy Workshop is now branching into philosophy as well. We'll have Ontology and Semiotics sub-departments up and running soon (but Thomistic Theology and Existentialism will have to wait). Psychology is also on the Strategy agenda. |
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Oct-23-06
| | Domdaniel: Thorsson (main page, p.508) gave this reply on the subject of the Monad Trap: Thorsson: <UnderdogBA: Is Black allowed to use chess engines? If so, wouldn't playing a move like Bb6 just because it's trappy be total nonsense?>
Yes it would be. However, trappy is not really an accurate description and maybe the use of the word "trap" does the idea a disservice. True there is a "trap" for the unwary in that an unthinking Nd5 allows us to put the B on d4 without having to deal with Ng4, but this is not the sum total of the move's appeal by any means. Even Black's best defense, Ng4, is no worse (and IMO better, in giving us more winning chances) for White than what he can get from 19.Bg5. And other White moves cede all advantage.
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Oct-23-06
| | Domdaniel: <kwgurge> on the main page (p.508) makes an interesting comment on the DSB exchange question: Also, If the DSBs have to be traded, it is better to do it on g7 after a subsequent ...Bf8/g7 and Bd4 for white. The trade on g7 exposes black's king to check with f6 with the white Queen eyeing h6 or on d4 where white's recapture centralizes a N. Alternatively, the analysis I have seen here shows that an exchange on d8 also favors white. However, exchanging on e7 only helps develop black's pieces and gives him a strong grip on the open e-file. Thus, Bb6 gives white the opprtunity to forestall a trade of the DSBs, or at least have it occur on a better square for us. Bg5 all but assures a trade of the DSBs on terms more favorable to black. |
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Oct-23-06
| | Domdaniel: ** MARKER DIAGRAM ***
We have now played 19.Bb6 to reach this position (Black to play): 
click for larger viewThe strategy workshop will continue.
The question of when and if to exchange dark-square bishops isn't really susceptible to generalities anymore, but will come down to specific features of the position. As said before, I'm fascinated by the unusual IQP structure, with pawns on d3 and d6. It has very different dynamics to games with pawns on d4 and d5. If anyone knows of GM games with this peculiar situation - isolani on d3 and d6 - please let me know. All other positional and strategic ideas still welcome, as we move into the land of Monadic Trappists. The rest is silence... |
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Oct-23-06
| | Domdaniel: On traps in general and Monadic ones in particular. The game I mentioned before is Vidmar vs Nimzowitsch, 1929. Nimzo plays 18...Rh8, then 19...h4. Vidmar reckons it's a kingside attack of some kind. Then Nimzo plays 21...Rh5 and 22...Rxe5, casually rounding up the loose white pawn on e5. Vidmar thought this was a 'trap'. He called 18...Rh8 'a subtly conceived and skilfully laid trap into which I fell quite unwittingly'. Nimzo disagreed. The h-file play was thematic. Vidmar had simply blundered by missing one aspect of it, the oblique attack on the e5-pawn. In my view, our Monad Trap is similar. |
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Oct-23-06
 | | Open Defence: I noticed <Weiseyschwarz> warning about us losing our DSB.... I am still not convinced that it's in itself a bad thing... GMAN needs his DSB to defend too... in fact in the Ng4 lines that I saw on jepflast's forum Black retains the DSBs... but it seems that in such a line we probably should not exchange off a N for the Black LSB .... Black does have some holes on f6 and d5 .. squares of either colour that our Knights can use... User: OhioChessFan has some diagrams of the pawn structure sans pieces which indicate just how many squares we have to play with... our weakness on b3 and c4 has not come into reckoning on any of the lines... they currently seem too far away from the critical action but in the end game we might be tied down to defending the pawns.. as we have 5 pawn islands to GMAN's 3... or rather 4 isolated pawns... |
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Oct-23-06
| | Domdaniel: <Open Defence> At this stage I think the DSB exchange comes down to context and the details of the situation - not on e7 if he gets the e-file, but maybe on d8. Although I'd rather leave his DSB on d8 where it interferes with his communications and is far from the gaps on the kingside. Also, I don't think we need to worry much about his 2 bishops - as things stand it's almost impossible to activate both at once. As I recall you said before, we should watch out for those light squares too, since we no longer have a bishop minding them. |
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Oct-23-06
| | Open Defence: <19...Bd8 20.Nd4 Ng4 21.Bxd8 Qxd8 22.Qf4 Ne5 23.Rad1 g5 24.Qg3 f6 25.Ra1 b5 26.Ne6 > that line can transpose from 19.. Ng4 20 Nd4 Bd8 too.... I still havent seen any analyses after the computers are force fed with 21 Bxd8 Raxd8 22Rae1 Rc8... all I have been told is that the computers prefer 21..Qxd8 .. maybe they are right but I don't see why as yet.... |
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Oct-23-06
| | Domdaniel: <Open Def> Good point. In fact, simply because the engines prefer ...Qxd8 might be sufficient reason for Arno to play something else. We'll have to look into this... |
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Oct-24-06
| | Domdaniel: Pynchon tells us, in Proverbs for Paranoids:
1. You hide, They seek.
2. The innocence of the creatures is in inverse proportion to the immorality of the Master. Bear these in mind, fellow creatures. Dom's gone paranoid. That mackerel sky looks less like a moire and more like a chessboard... |
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Oct-24-06
| | Domdaniel: *** MARKER DIAGRAM ****
He has now played 19...Ng4 to reach this position (White to play): 
click for larger viewThe Strategy Workshop will continue. |
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Oct-24-06
| | Open Defence: I am amazed ... to my peanut brain <20. Nd4 Bf8 21. Qf4 Ne5 22. Nxc6 bxc6 23. d4 Nd3 24. Qd2 Nb4> now 25.Ra3 with the idea of Ra3 - b3 probably forcing the Knight to d5 and doubling black pawns on the d file seems a good strategy... but from the lines posted by <RV> <Dionyseus> and others I see the engines suggest 25Rf3 ? ..hmmmmmm |
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Oct-24-06
| | Open Defence: ok I see it ... Qb7 probably throws a spanner in the works for the Ra3-b3 plan.... |
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Oct-24-06
| | Open Defence: I see that analysis of 20 h3 is in progress... I didn't like the move at move 19 and I am not sure of it for move 20 either.. the ♘ is not going to remain on g4 ... h3 probably loses a tempo... |
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Oct-24-06
| | Domdaniel: I'm going to leave the calculators, abaci, and analysts to their own devices for a while, and get back to strategic themes. The big ones remain:
- DSB exchange?
- Nb3-d4 for Bc6 exchange?
- role of pawns on d3 & d6
En passant: one main engine line of analysis - I think it's gone out of fashion by now, which is great, because it was not convincing - had us play the Bb6 back to e3, then on to h6 to be exchanged for black's Bf8. This multi-move dance is not what we mean by exchanging under favorable conditions. |
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Oct-24-06
| | Open Defence: well a hint may be in the lines where the engines go with Nxc6 at some point and some lines where they dont... after 19..Ng4 it seems more likely that we have to play Nxc6 at some point as after Ne5 our light squares come under pressure... in the end game we will have 4 pawn islands.. after Nxc6 bxc6 Black still has 3... it seems that the computers some where along the thread find an improvement in the transposition into the 19..Bd8 line and probably that's why 20Nd4 Bf8 is preferred... in some lines the DSB can regroup to h6 and keep the Queen out of f4 and g5 or if Queens are exchanged control e3 ...our problem is our QN on c3... but if it keeps the Black N out of d5 or exchanges it with Nxd5 the pawn weaknesses may even out.. hence again Nd4 keeping the exchange Nxc6 ready maybe best.... |
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Oct-24-06
| | Open Defence: Note: GMAN has chosen what IMHO is the most flexible move... he has not yet committed to Bf8 ... Bd8... or something else... only probably the logical Ne5.... |
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Oct-24-06
| | Open Defence: In fact to chase the N away from e5 we will have to play d4.. now this makes our light squares d3 and especially e2 (only covered by the c3 N) vulnerable as we have conceded the b5 and a4 squares (pawn on a5) ... hence once the black N reaches e5 we will need to play Nxc6 I think.. so working backwards we need Nd4.. but is this the only way to achieve this? .... is there any other way to bolster e2 and d3 ? |
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Oct-25-06
| | Domdaniel: Hi, all. My occasional collisions with "work" deadlines will keep me tied up for a while today. It's now 05:00 on the gameboard, 10am local time (far west Yurp). I should be back in about 5 hrs; then I can try to get my head round these conundrums (conundra? conundrum-n-conunbass?) put forward by <Open Defence>. Ta. |
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Oct-25-06
 | | kwgurge: <Honza> The lines you posted on user: Stevens forum are interesting. I hope someone turns their engines on them.
Everything I have seen thus far after 20.Nd4 or 20.h3 with best play by black yield nothing better than about a 1/4 pawn advantage (in Rybka terms) for white. If that is the best we can generate through the middlegame, I am willing to consider a move like Qf4 which seems to lead more quickly toward an ending where white has some winning chances. But our leading analysts will have to come around to this conclusion and beat the drums as they did for 18.Qd2 and 19.Bb6 or 20. Nd4 will not be caught. We have 30.5 hours left, which is enough time based on past experience, IF the influential folks and their engines are convinced. |
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Oct-25-06
| | Domdaniel: From the main page [p.526]
Technical Draw: Planlessness... we're all doomed...
<Milo> respondes:
Milo: <technical draw>: There are several plans here, depending on what black does. If black does not blockade the f6 square, we will play f6 and get a winning attack on the h-file/g7 square. If black plays Bxb6, we play Nxc6 which gives us a favorable endgame, under the right circumstances. If black plays gxf5, we launch a kingside attack.
The problem with using a single plan, is that it won't force a win, and we will simply end up playing a series of forcing or forced moves that will lead to an equal ending, which we will inevitably lose. It is better just to play moves which stifle black's active attempts at controlling the game, and wait for him to make a mistake. |
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Oct-25-06
| | Domdaniel: Nothing of any great significance to add to the main strategic themes that have been floating round for the past few moves. But the Nf6-g4-e5 maneuver does seem to improve Black's position. e5 is an excellent strongpoint for a knight (for the 2nd time in this game - and now we don't have the f4 option like we did last time). We can't play d4 at once because of ...Nc4. Meanwhile Black can simply continue with moves like ...Bf8, ...Bg7, and ...Rc8. If we play Nd4xc6, he also will have the extra option of recapturing with the knight, ...Nxc6. It lacks the advantage of ...bxc6, which improves his pawn structure and opens the b-file, but it gives the knight a strong influence on the centre. |
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| Oct-25-06 | | monad: Note to self: must do better tomorrow, and make it three. |
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