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Oct-25-06
 | | Domdaniel: And I didn't mean you, mon admiral.
But I'm going to try to be quick enough to zap you before you do it yourself... |
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Oct-25-06
| | Domdaniel: note to Self: dear Will, how do you manage to sell so many books? |
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Oct-25-06
 | | Open Defence: <the natural move> is to get some sleep and worry about the chess game tomorrow.. hehehe.. <20.Qf4> the big difference is that the Queens are off the board.... Now..Jan Cervenka has some interesting analysis, this may be making the best of what is really a roughly even position in that each side has some weaknesses that probably even out.... however.. we should be careful not to overlook transpositions that lead to one side having the best of the end game.. |
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Oct-25-06
| | Open Defence: <For the 2nd time in this game he gets an irritating knight on e5, and we can't boot this one out so easily> Zigactly!!!! which is why the Nd4 line planning to exchange off the c6 Bishop and then d4 may look better.. |
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Oct-25-06
| | Domdaniel: <Open Defence> Yes, I'm coming around to something like this. Nd4, Nxc6, then d4 and maybe d5 to blow the centre apart while Black is still relatively passive. One interesting idea is to insert the move b3 at some point, so black can't answer d4 with ...Nc4. Does this work? No idea. |
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Oct-25-06
| | Open Defence: <One interesting idea is to insert the move b3 at some point, so black can't answer d4 with ...Nc4> that's what the puters were coming up in the <19...Ng4 20.Nd4 Bf8 21.Qg5> line that I believe has been busted by the comps as it leads to an even position.. (mind you I consider the present position pretty even)...we should watch our pawn islands.. 3 can easly become 4 and we should be careful towards the end game.. |
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Oct-25-06
| | Domdaniel: I wish this little ditty was mine, but it ain't...
Where am I now that I need me?
Suddenly where have I gone?
I'm so alone here without me
I kept myself hanging on...
(Tell me) I'll come back tomorrow
(Tell me) that I never lied
(Tell me) that I'll never leave me
My place is here at my side. |
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Oct-25-06
| | Domdaniel: I've finally decided that on move 20 I prefer 20.h3, with Nd4 next: Right, here's a suggestion for a simple transposition. Let's play 20.h3 now.
After 20.h3 Ne5, then 21.Nd4.
Having the pawn on h3 is useful, and kicking the black knight to e5 at once is also good. Our 'old' main line after 20.h3 involved following it with f6 and the bishop maneuver Bb6-e3-h6. Let's forget that nonsense. 20.h3 first, and then 21.Nd4.
It looks good, and it keeps more options open than any other line. Even Fritz provisionally rates it as OK (even if it prefers the daft bishop dance routine...) |
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Oct-25-06
| | Domdaniel: Karpova [p.534] comes to the same conclusion:
Karpova: Yes, we are facing an extremely strong opponent and the correct move order is very crucial at this kind of high level chess. We made a lot of good moves but still struggle for an advantage cause GMAN knows what he has to do.
The problem is: 20.Nd4 gives GMAN the option of playing Bf8: 20.Nd4 Bf8 21.h3 Bh6 - as you can see, h3 doesn't work anymore and black could play Ne3 also. 20.h3 instead forces him to play 20....Ne5 and then 21.Nd4 can be played safely. And the good defensive manouever Bf8-h6 is not an option any longer. Vote for 20.Nh3
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Oct-25-06
| | Domdaniel: An appeal to anyone who has voted 20.Nd4 and who reads this during the remaining hours. Please switch to 20.h3 Ne5 21.Nd4
It turns out to be quite important to kick the Ng4 at once - it has threats like ...Ne3 and Bf8-h6. It's true these can also be met by moves like 21.Qf4 - but that line now looks a little shaky. 20.h3 now is better, with Nd4 next. |
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Oct-25-06
 | | OhioChessFan: LOL <Domdaniel> I got to wondering what brought on the h3 panic. h3 has picked up 35 votes in 3 hours. It started on page 533 with Karpova asking why h3 should be played. You made a couple posts in support, I made a few, Karpova came over to h3, and the tide was started. I sure hope you're a better player than me, because I'm a little concerned people would take me seriously.
I do think Thorsson's line is a pretty good response to Bf8 in the line we're worried about, though I think we'll get crushed in an endgame. |
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Oct-25-06
 | | kwgurge: I think I am coming around to h3. The engine analyses of Nd4 and h3 don't show enough difference to mean anything. I have not seen any blowout lines (good or bad) for either move, so I am falling back on some simple fundamentals.
Nd4 seems to restrict white's options and increase black's options more than h3. After Nd4 our DSB's actual range and the new d4 N's practical range are more limited than from where they are now. After Bf8, white is virtually forced to move the Q to f4 or g5. Black, however, retains more range for his N and his DSB as well as having more range for the KR and control over the e-file with threats at e3 and with Bh6. All of this exists while the N gets to just sit on g4 waiting to see what we do next before it chooses where to go. I think leaving the N on g4 cedes too much initiative to black. White controls the initiative, albeit ever so slightly, by immediately kicking the N with h3. It makes black react to us rather than vice versa. If Ne5 it removes the threats of Bh6 and to the e3 square, delays redeployment of the black DSB, and further blocks the e-file for use by black's R. If Nf6, black has wasted a tempo while allowing us to place a guard on the g4 square and retain the initiative of the next forcing move. h3 also controls the g4 square against later black Q or N entry. Finally, it leaves white's DSB and b3N with more scope for at least another move. The bottomline is I just don't like leaving the N on g4 and allowing black to dictate the next move to us. I am switching from Qf4 to h3 and will stay there unless someone comes up with a demonstrably and significantly better line following a different move. |
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Oct-26-06
| | Domdaniel: <kwgurge> Thanks - that pretty much sums up my thinking as well. It's short-term and pragmatic - I simply don't trust those long lines of analysis, engine or human. Too many branching points, as GMAN has already shown us. The trouble is that the Nd4 voters seem to be an unwilling coalition of people playing it for simplistic reasons and people playing it for subtle reasons. Will that coalition hold together when the next few highly accurate moves need to be made? |
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| Oct-26-06 | | Dionyseus: <Domdaniel> <Will that coalition hold together when the next few highly accurate moves need to be made?> 20.Nd4 Bf8 and here Qf4 is pretty much forced because of Bh6 threat, but Qf4 happens to be a great move because it forces black to move his knight, and then we go into a sequence in which we dictate black's moves, for example: 21.Qf4 Ne5 22.Nxc6 bxc6 23.d4 Nd3 24.Qd2 Nb4 25.Ra4 Nd5 black is pretty much forced to play this. After that, the plan is to double up the rooks on the F file for a kingside attack. |
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| Oct-26-06 | | monad: <Dom>
Sterling support from your side, for little old h3.
Can't stand the tension and am considering taking up needlework instead.
Or maybe white water rafting. Abseiling? Anything other than advocating a move. Can I mention my forum again in a couple of hours? Or is it now bordering on the side of spam? I'm trying to be discreet, but I just want people to play through the game and feel it. It makes me smile. That gotta be good, no? Please zap so as not to block your posts
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| Oct-26-06 | | Dionyseus: <<monad> <20.h3 Ne5 21.Nd4 d5 22.Nxc6 bxc6 23.Na4 Qd6 24.Bc5 Qd8 25.Bxe7 Qxe7 26.b4 Qh4 27.fxg6 Nxg6 28.Qf2 Qxf2+ 29.Rxf2 Re3 30.Nc5> 23...Qd6 looks dubious to me.
Instead of 27...Nxg6, black should play hxg6. For example 27...hxg6 28.Nc5 Re7 29.Rab1 Kg7 and this looks drawish, actually it looks pretty ugly for both sides:
click for larger view |
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| Oct-26-06 | | GufeldStudent: Domdaniel, why do you think Whiteshark made that comment? Did I say something offense. |
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Oct-26-06
| | Domdaniel: **MARKER DIAGRAM**
We have played 20.Nd4 to reach this position (Black to play): 
click for larger view |
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Oct-26-06
| | Open Defence: <transposition> that little device that can turn a game on its head.... |
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| Oct-26-06 | | twinlark: Dom - Check out jepflast's message on his forum, if he doesn't want to host 20...Bf8, you'll need to find someone quickly. <mack>, <you vs yourself>, <JDK>, <WannaBe> and <Chess Classics> are all in a position to host a move. ok ok I'll shut up and go now... |
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| Oct-26-06 | | themadhair: <twinlark> Suppose, hypothetically for the moment, that there was a power shortage, or some such. and you were left without internet. What withdrawal symptoms would you have? |
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| Oct-26-06 | | twinlark: <themadhair>
I'll guess I'll found out soon as I have no intention of coming near it for four days. Permanently? Hard to visualise the scenario but I have no shortage of things to keep me occupied. The problem would be leaving things undone, like here for example, rather than not having the internet. I've gone for lengthy periods (weeks, months) without using the 'Net for more than a casual check of the news. So to answer your question, apart from losing contact with the people I've gotten to know here, the other withdrawal symptom would be having to rely on the mainstream media for news of the world. Gak. |
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| Oct-26-06 | | monad: <Daddy Dom>
Count me out as I'm out for the count.
It'll take me ages to get my bearing on this new trail we are following. How close was it in the end? Were you there?
BTW, did you realise that cryptically speaking, you are useless without me? I like the 'unique way'. Wonder what that is a euphemism for ;-) Hope Twinlark can unwind on his break. I do envy him the coming Spring, when we are plunged into Winter. Although today I actually sunbathed out of doors. Wear you chain of office with pride!
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Oct-26-06
| | Domdaniel: Thanks, Mon A.D.
I shall try. I'm dimly aware that there's supposed to be an unpleasant personality type who delights in being the boss's stand-in -- I wouldn't know, haven't been near an actual workplace in centuries... |
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Oct-26-06
| | Open Defence: <haven't been near an actual workplace in centuries...> lucky you... |
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