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| Apr-09-07 | | achieve: <Eyal> Thanks. About that game, be it after move 27 or 30 -- What is your view on comps ability to asses such a position? (10 minutes thinking time will be way too short imo). I think Anand might be one to understand such a position quicker than most other GMs and engines. <Dom> Worked on a mega insult, but just didn't have the nerve too post it.
Give me a mean, devastating, low blow first! That could help I think.. |
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Apr-09-07
 | | Domdaniel: Oh, all right, be nice. I don't think people -- such oddly non-versatile beings -- can simply be *ordered* to switch into insult mode anyhow. These things have to well up from deep inside, hein? I suppose the cruellest most unkindest cut of all would have been if my plea for mass intolerance had been met with total silence. And everyone just toddled off to be nice elsewhere. <Jess> Zzzzipppp! Who *was* that masked superperson? Still trying to work out "woman's man's woman" ... as in, uh, who does what, and with which, and to whom. Never mind. As you were, les grenouilles. Or as the old show tune from Li'l Abner says: Put 'em back the way they was
They was dumb, they was heathen
But at least they was breathin'
Put 'em back the way they was.
My new hobby is standing in front of the TV belting this out at makeover shows -- the way some people will bellow a national anthem at moments of stress or passion... |
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| Apr-09-07 | | achieve: <My new hobby is standing in front of the TV belting this out at makeover shows> Must give some relief.. Bellowing it out. Good tip. Good night from me, Editor and Chief
Guy in second row
with bionic leg |
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| Apr-09-07 | | mack: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind really is the most romantic film ever. |
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| Apr-09-07 | | Eyal: <achieve: About that game, be it after move 27 or 30 -- What is your view on comps ability to asses such a position?> Quite good, I think - a very open position, lots of tactics, lots of checks - The enormous calculating power of a good engine should go a very long way here, given enough time to reach a high number of plies. |
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| Apr-10-07 | | mckmac: Hey <Dom>,four days after posting the answer,here's the question-- typical.  click for larger view
(Solution)1.f3+ gxf3 2.Qe6+ Kf4 3.e3+ dxe3 4.Qf6+ Ke4 5.d3+ cxd3 6.Rc4+ Nd4 7.Qe6+ Kf4 8.Rxd4+ cxd4 9.Nd5+ cxd5 10.Bd6+ cxd6 11.Qf6+ Ke4 12.Rg4+ Nf4 13.Rxf4+ gxf4 14.Bf5+ gxf5 15.Qe5+ dxe5 16.Ne6# (known as "The Iron Cage" in the old Soviet Union,courtesy Benzol) Btw,terrific discussion on the complexities surrounding making a return to tournament play.Cheers <achieve>,<WBP>,et al.Classy of you to share your personal ups and downs in the first place,come to think of it. |
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Apr-10-07
 | | Domdaniel: <mckmac> Wow. Gadzooks. I thought the solution looked familiar, but I was thinking of something much simpler involving a succession of knight hops. This thing is beautiful. And some people still say that chess will be all worn out and solved by computers. Not with circuit-fryers like this in existence, it won't. |
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Apr-10-07
 | | Domdaniel: <mack> -- <Eternal Sunshine...>
Watched it on TV last night, did you? I meant to, but forgot. Now I suppose I'll have to go and look for the DVD. |
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Apr-10-07
 | | Domdaniel: <mckmac> That Iron Cage is positively Kafkaesque. White refrains from delivering mate in a zillion other mundane ways, en route to the final snapping shut of the trap... fiendish. So now we have the final position, and the start position, and the route from one to the other. But, uh, what's the question? |
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Apr-10-07
 | | Domdaniel: This is one composed by Levitt and Nunn specifically as a test for computers. The first five moves are a forcing tactical sequence, and then comes some subtle endgame play with reciprocal zugzwangs. Some engines will find one but not the other -- or perhaps that was true 10 years ago, but not any more. click for larger viewWhite to play and win. |
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| Apr-10-07 | | whiteshark: ♫ with the little help from my friends ♫ |
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| Apr-10-07 | | whiteshark: Dear Editor!
Do you call friends of grilled frog's thigh <batrachophiles> ? |
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| Apr-10-07 | | WBP: <Dom> Thanks for all the stuff on the French and, more specifically, the Tarrasch. I've long since given up the Sicilian in computer games, and have used e5 to answer 1. e4, but the French looks awfully attractive to me now, and Moro has turned it into a pretty good attacking weapon. From what I can ascertain from his games collection page, Jesse Kraai has now made his third GM norm and will become the first American-born GM for some time. |
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Apr-10-07
 | | Domdaniel: <whiteshark> -- <Do you call friends of grilled frog's thigh <batrachophiles> ?> No, that's just any old frog-lovers. The frog thigh specialists would have to be something like <batrachofemurophiles>. And if they insist on having their thighs grilled, it gets even more complicated, depending on whether a grilling is a method of cooking or a form of interrogation. I've never personally interrogated a frog's thigh, however, although I believe a shot of electricity works wonders. |
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Apr-10-07
 | | Domdaniel: <WBP> Witness the Frogspawn Effect in action. A matter of hours after we adopt Jesse Kraai as one of our favorites, and he's a GM already. Incredible. As Captain Beefheart put it: <Ice Cream for Crow>. |
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| Apr-10-07 | | WBP: <Dom> <and he's a GM already. Incredible> Yes! Fantastic and spooky! And, he is also a die-hard French D. player! O <Frogspawn,> thou art mighty yet; Thy spirit walks abroad...[and the rest is obviously inappropriate to this purpose]." <I've never personally interrogated a frog's thigh> I have, and it was just like chicken. |
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| Apr-10-07 | | WBP: <Dom> Lool right now at the chess diagram posted in the <aoa2102chessforum> (April 9 '07). Now I'm beginning to feel the presence of Rod Serling. (P.S. really good post in Niels's) |
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Apr-10-07
 | | WannaBe: <Domdaniel: ... A matter of hours after we adopt Jesse...> Can you adopt me as your favourite?!?! |
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| Apr-10-07 | | Eyal: <Dom> Btw, re <'conceptual novelty' might be seen as a last-ditch effort to sustain a romantic belief in originality or creativity.> If you think of modern "conceptual art", which Warhol epitomizes and which probably began in earnest with Duchamp's ready-mades, you might put a different spin on it and say that's the *purest* case of originality/creativity of all - because here we're dealing purely with the idea, or "concept", with no significant dimension of "technique" (or "execution" - in producing the artistic object) involved. In this context, here are two passages about the mode of existence of "conceptual artworks" which I find interesting, from a book I've read recently, <The Work of Art> (1997) by Gerard Genette: I will start out from a particular case, chosen for its simplicity, and, secondarily, its celebrity – a "pure" ready-made… the bottlerack Duchamp proposed to the public in 1914 under the literal title <Bottlerack>. There are basically two ways of accounting for such an object; they do not at all have the same significance… The first… says that this bottlerack *constitutes* the work in question, or that the work *consists* in the bottlerack. The second… says that, in this case, Duchamp's work consists not in this commercially available bottlerack, but rather in the act, or, more expressively, *gesture*… of proposing it as a work of art… Of these two interpretations, I adopt and will defend the second… If we argue that the bottlerack "by" Duchamp is an artwork, while granting that this object, like ready-mades in general, was not promoted for aesthetic reasons, as Duchamp himself confirms, we can infer… that the artistic is not always bound up with… the aesthetic. If we say that the work here consists, not in this particular object, but in the act of proposing it, we leave open the possibility that there is an aesthetic quality, not to the object, certainly, but to the act… In other words, the fact that the ready-mades are anti-aesthetic or un-aesthetic in intent (which seems to me hardly open to doubt) does not at all mean that we cannot, at a secondary level, treat this intent itself (and not the object it bears on) as aesthetic. There is no legislating judgments of taste, and an art lover who finds aesthetic qualities in a bottlerack (which certainly possesses them to some degree), as others compare <Fountain> [Duchamp's urinal] to a Brancusi, Arp, or Moore, has, of course, a perfect right to do so. In that case, however, the object – bottlerack or urinal – should be attributed to its true creator, who, inasmuch as he (not Duchamp) is responsible for its aesthetic qualities, should be given credit for his work, as happens whenever a coffeepot or a toaster is exhibited at the Metropolitan Museum of Modern Art for the quality of its design and the greater glory of its designer… But we do not, in fact, exhibit it in this spirit… we exhibit it to (as it were) perpetuate the act of proposing it, which the art-world thus makes its own. "Duchamp once defied us to exhibit the kind of bottlerack that is commercially available, and we now face up to the challenge, the reasons for which we have (since) understood" – reasons which… are not of an aesthetic nature, in the ordinary, "straight" sense: that is, they do not stem from any interest in the *form* of this bottlerack. |
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Apr-10-07
 | | Domdaniel: <WannaBe> Yes, of course, no probs. What kind of title would you like? |
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| Apr-10-07 | | whiteshark: <amici moluscae>: news-flash about
"FROGSPAWN" on <my> page :
Odd Lie |
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Apr-10-07
 | | Domdaniel: <Eyal> Yes, I'll opt for Duchampian selection as well... as long as the creative artist tries not to make too much of a fuss over the act of selection as an original gesture. Nominating things as art can be enormous fun. I used to publish a zine named Zilch, which apparently jumped from issue #4 to issue #27 -- explaining the discrepancy by saying that #17 was the continent of Europe, #21 an interval of three seconds on 01/01/02, #22 a move by Kramnik, und so weiter |
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Apr-10-07
 | | Domdaniel: Of course, everything in this forum has already been nominated as a work of art. Recursive, or just spooky? |
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Apr-10-07
 | | Domdaniel: <Eyal> That's Duchampian Selection as opposed to Darwinian or 'natural' selection. Us old pomo hands know that nothing is ever as natural as it seems, especially Nature. Duchamp, aka Saint Marcel, is of course already one of our presiding deities. He was playing the Reti and Alekhine's Defence by 1924 and perhaps even earlier -- which makes chess the first artform where hyper- or post- modernism was widely adopted. Nimzo invented the 20th century, and Duchamp and Kafka were his prophets. |
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| Apr-10-07 | | Eyal: <He was playing the Reti and Alekhine's Defence by 1924 and perhaps even earlier -- which makes chess the first artform where hyper- or post- modernism was widely adopted.> Amusing to note, btw, how Nabokov describes in <The [Luzhin] Defence> (1930) the style of the novel’s hero greatest opponent, Turati (allusion to Reti?): He [Luzhin] was getting ready for the Berlin tournament with the definite idea of finding the best defence against the complex opening of the Italian Turati, who was the most awesome of the future participants in the tournament. This player, a representative of the latest fashions, opened the game by moving up on the flanks, leaving the middle of the board unoccupied by pawns but exercising a most dangerous influence on the center from the sides. Scorning the cozy safety of castling he strove to create the most unexpected and whimsical interrelations between his men. Luzhin had already met him once and lost, and this defeat particularly rankled because Turati, by temperament, by his style of play and by his proclivity for fantastic arrayls, was a player with a kindred mentality to his own. |
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Later Kibitzing> |
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