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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 51 OF 963 ·
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| Jan-09-07 | | mack: <Pynchon seems to be actually, well, crap at titles. He wanted to call Gravity's Rainbow 'Mindless Pleasures'.> Gravity's Rainbow is a brilliant title though. I often shudder to think what masterpieces might have been called. A slightly less highbrow example is the first Fighting Fantasy book, 'The Warlock of Firetop Mountain', which up until the morning it was sent to the publishers was to be called 'The Magic Quest'. <Scott Walker partly dispensed with song titles on Climate of Hunter, using 'track 3' and 'track 7' etc instead. Odd.> And a bit boring, too.
<Some people think that William Burroughs invented the term 'heavy metal'. In fact it was used much earlier by Nimzowitsch.> Ah, good old Bill. I think I can actually bring us full circle here by quoting from a Robert Pollard interview... <"I like Rimbaud and Jim Morrison, people who are really @#$%ed up. I like the darker, kinda seedier stuff, like Burroughs. I'm not a junky, but I like to write like I am one. It's more interesting."> <Short titles? Most years from 1984 (Orwell), 1985 (Burgess) ... 1999 (Prince) ... 2001 (Kubrick) to ... 2010 (Clarke) have been used. Some gaps, though.> This seems like a fun game. Daniel Johnston's '1990' springs to mind. Another interesting one is songs named after books - Wuthering Heights, Fairytale Of New York, Can You Forgive Her?. Daniel Cooper published a short story called The Ash Gray Proclamation, too. |
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| Jan-09-07 | | Eyal: <Pynchon seems to be actually, well, crap at titles. He wanted to call Gravity's Rainbow 'Mindless Pleasures'.> I'm not sure I understand - do you mean that he SHOULD have chosen 'Mindless Pleasures', or that the very fact he even considered it shows he's crap at titles? To my mind, Gravity's Rainbow is a great title. Here's something by David Lodge about titular vagaries: The American publishers of my <How Far Can You Go?> persuaded me to change its name to <Souls and Bodies> on the grounds that the British title would be shelved by American bookshops under How To Do It books, a silly argument to which I have always regretted yielding. (I don't know what they would have done with Carol Clewlow's <A Woman's Guide to Adultery>, or Georges Perec's <Life: a User's Manual>.) I wanted to call my third novel <The British Museum Had Lost Its Charm>, a line from the song "A Foggy Day (in London Town)", but the Gershwin Publishing Corporation wouldn't let me; so I had to change it at the last minute to <The British Museum is Falling Down> [...] Perhaps titles always mean more to authors than to readers, who, as every writer knows, frequently forget or garble the names of books they claim to admire. I have been credited with novels called <Changing Wives>, <Trading Places> and <Small Change>, and Professor Bernard Crick once mentioned in a letter that he had enjoyed my <Having it Off>, but perhaps he was having me on. But really, having been in agonies just recently to pick a title for my own book, I know full well it's no laughing matter. |
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Jan-09-07
 | | Domdaniel: <JDK: <Dom> Neuropa has been around for a while I think.>
A long while. I used it as a title in 1989, and I wasn't the first. I think it was disguised as an essay in an art show catalogue, credited to 'DG Domdaniel'. I was in an ultra-invisible phase, using different names and 'hiding' the writing on record sleeves and in brochures. Obscurity at any cost... |
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Jan-09-07
 | | Domdaniel: The best mini-song-lyric I know is by The Residents: <No-one knew exactly who
She was, or how she died/
But when they opened up her purse
They found a snail inside.>
<mack> Have to disagree about Hard Times. The overt sentimental meaning still carries an echo of the others, like The Grindstone. Maybe he should have called it <illegitimi non carborundum>. |
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Jan-09-07
 | | Domdaniel: <Euclid, eh. I thought Lehrer covered the Elements far more efficiently.> Must have done. At least nobody I know of has yet come up with an example of a non-Lehrerian space. Rules? Who let them in here? Pass me m'pistol...
<mack> I know Chagall about comedy, really. I just have innate good taste that leads me to Viv Stanshall and, er, Derek and Clive. Suppose one might say that Peter Cook was the drug and Dudley just the foil. |
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Jan-09-07
 | | Domdaniel: <Eyal> - <I hope those darker periods would come soon, they sound more interesting...>
Maybe for the reader, certainly for the critic. But the writer - after 6 months of writing '@#$%' every day - starts to long for the creative diversity shown by Jack Nicholson's character in The Shining: <All work and no play...> |
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| Jan-09-07 | | mack: <All work and no play...> = a lot of us here since the Nickel game began. |
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Jan-09-07
 | | Domdaniel: <JDK> Forgive the blunt question, but you're not by any chance an extra-terrestrial lifeform, are you? This is why I ask: <JDK: <Mack> I probably have fingertips at home somewhere.> All species are welcome here, of course, including shape-shifters, polymorphs, and Tritonian Transvestites. "JDK appeared, disguised as a human being. He checked quickly to make sure he had the disguise on properly. 'Nose and toes the same way goes' he repeated to himself, slipping a stray earlobe into place. 'And the appendix goes *inside*...'
All was well." |
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Jan-09-07
 | | Domdaniel: <Eyal> In a sense, bookstores are the great bottom line. Their common-sense division between fiction and nonfiction is almost unbreachable. (Actually, before I got too deep into the aleatory stuff, my original PhD proposal was called 'The Fictional Floor' and dealt with this borderline... encyclopedic fictions can only approach the condition of actually being encyclopedias...) We can cite texts that approach the barrier from both sides. <The Telephone Book> and <Crack Wars> by Avital Ronell attempt to cross from theory to actual fiction, and meet Kathy Acker's <Hannibal Lecter, My Father> coming back. But it's where the shops and libraries shelve them that really counts. Although you can spend an amusing afternoon in a big bookstore/library looking for misallocations. Any sf book that fails to print the words 'science fiction' on the cover is liable to end up buried in pop physics or do-it-yourself theology. For musical accompaniment here I'll fall back on Laurie Anderson (<Gravity's Angel>, dedicated to Pynchon) and John Prine: <That common sense don't make no sense no more>. |
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Jan-09-07
 | | Domdaniel: <JDK> & <mack> Yep, this place is filling up fast today... My favorite imaginary band name -- a bit too obviously post-punk -- is Rodent Orgasm Structure. Or even <rodent/orgasm/structure>... The idea is that there are three members, named Sean Rodent, Sean Orgasm, and (the drummer) Attila the Structure. Then they split up, citing 'musical similarities'. Our story begins as Sean - 'now solo like all the best orgasms' - appears on a TV chatshow to perform his verse, 'A war surplus submarine sandwich/ aims grease torpedoes at your head...' I think I should offer the movie role to <mack>... |
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Jan-09-07
 | | Domdaniel: <JDK> A footnote: think Einsturzende Neubaten crossed with John Cooper Clarke. |
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Jan-09-07
 | | jessicafischerqueen: Ok Gentlemen, there was a band from Ontario, Canada called <Big Forehead>: Great or terrible band name? Pink Floyd's song <Meddle> was originaly entitled <Return to the Sun of Nothing>: Which of these titles is the "winning variation" for White? I need to know
Jess |
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Jan-09-07
 | | jessicafischerqueen: <Dom> Since I never go to class, I'm almost always in front of my computer "working". Your cadre of posters in here also seem to have 24-7 access to their computer. Help!! |
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Jan-09-07
 | | jessicafischerqueen: LOL <grease torpedos> Reminds me of Wolfgang Peterson's <Das Boot> |
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Jan-09-07
 | | Domdaniel: <Jess> Yeah, we all touch our touchpads a little too much. Or jiggle our mices, as the case may be... Meddle vs Return to the Sun of Nothing?
Hmm. Could be a purely aesthetic long-vs-short queen-vs-rook thing. Or 'meddle' could be a meta-title: answering the question <what must we do to 'Return to the Sun of Nothing' to make it better?> Meddle: medley?
Had they already done <Set the Controls for the heart of the Sun>? Maybe they were just all solarized out. As a teenager I risked death at the hands of Pink Floyd fans by writing graffiti that read P-I-N-K F- [murmurs of approval all round, "it's OK man, he's cool" etc] and then finishing it with -A-I-R-I-E-S. The Pink Fairies really were an obscure band, but the Floydians thought their masculinity was being impugned... |
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Jan-09-07
 | | Domdaniel: <Eyal> - <the very fact he even considered it shows he's crap at titles>
That, yes. Gravity's Rainbow is perfect. Mindless Pleasures would have been so wrong. |
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Jan-09-07
 | | jessicafischerqueen: <Dom> Yes, <Set the Controls> was realeased several years before <Meddle> Given Roger Waters' jaundiced view of humanity, and his penchant for wordplay, yes <Meddle- Medley> but also <meddling> with bourgeois complacency, which is his main communicative goal in his art. <Pink Fairies> I think you were unfairly done by. That's a charming name for a band. Was <Oscar Wilde> and <Quentin Crisp> (portrayed by John Hurt) in the band? |
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Jan-09-07
 | | Domdaniel: <Jess> Not that I ever saw them or anything, but I don't think the Pink Fairies were even slightly fey. More like the heavily be-stubbled and be-chained end of heavy metal, with added irony. I think one of them was Mick Farren, who also wrote a couple of books and released a solo album called Vampires Stole My Lunch Money. There's an SF satire by John Sladek in which some military genius comes up with the idea of renaming the Green Berets as the Pink Berets -- saying that if they have to prove their masculinity every second of every day then they'll wind up even tougher than before. Same principle, I think. Now some *real* fairies fan will probably come along and tell me, no, they weren't like that at all, they made charming noises on the flute and sang lilting songs about pixies... |
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Jan-09-07
 | | jessicafischerqueen: <real faeries> As a person who knows Ireland well, <Dom> you are of course well aware that REAL <Celtic Faeries> are quite fierce and unpredictable, and are as likely to <bite your nuts off> as they are to say <how do you do> |
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Jan-09-07
 | | Domdaniel: <Jess> Celticness was a 19th century invention, though the languages and the fairies are real enough... And the Irish Gaelic for 'contraceptive' is frith-ghiniunach, pronounced 'friggin eunuch'. Speaking of biting nuts off, as it were. |
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Jan-09-07
 | | jessicafischerqueen: <Dom> LMAO yet again-- Ok then, pass the <celt> and we'll forget about it. Quebecois French slang for <biting or cutting off nuts> is <coup ta poche>, for the edification of any linguists interested in castration. In Quebec folklore, the <bonne homme> is a sanitized version of an older creature from <Algonquin> Indian lore-- the <forest guardian>, who strikes at night, biting off the nuts of the Indian sleeping closest to the tent flap. No joke, that. Either way. |
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| Jan-10-07 | | JDK: <Dom> Alien? Quite likely. People do say I was hatched. :) Btw, the appendix always goes at the end right? :) Rodent Orgasm Stucture does sound like a Neubauten'y type band. Could also be a techno band with the '/'s in. There is a band called Run/Stop/Restore which is bit like an ABBA of minimal techno artists that produce on the m-nus label (minus). Not to many peoples tastes but I think great for chess thinking (linking it all back to chess). Most of the minus stuff is on the beatport label if you ever wanna listen. Ritchie Hawtin is the inspirator behind it. He hailed from Canada but now works in Berlin. Genius or box of frogs? I am not too sure. <jess> I don't think there is too much folklore from where I come from (I am sure there is somewhere). The only thing famous from where I come from is that Spike Milligan condemned an entire city (Portsmouth) to room 101. |
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Jan-10-07
 | | Domdaniel: <JDK> I used to play chess with a friend who liked to play really serious industrial music at alarming volume at the same time. Rocket factories having nervous breakdowns in obscure machine languages, screech, plong, thud. He beat me in 8 moves once, too. |
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Jan-10-07
 | | Domdaniel: <Jess> I could say I warned you about the terrible danger of LMAO-ing. But you'd just laugh it off. |
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Jan-10-07
 | | Domdaniel: <for the edification of any linguists interested in castration.> There are other kinds?
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Later Kibitzing> |