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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 763 OF 963 ·
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Oct-13-11
 | | OhioChessFan: Ahh, you caught me. I was going to wait for you to say it was a shame that Re8 didn't lead to a win and I was going to point out 26..Qxe1+ and I think that is a grind it out winning position. I had: 26...Qxe1+ 27. Kxe1 Nfe+ 28. Kd1 Nxd4 29. Bd7 Kf8 and I like Black to convert this. 
click for larger viewThe almost as spectacular pseudo sacrifice of a Rook, 22...Rac8 might be winning anyway. 22...Rac8 23. Qf6 Rxc3 24. bxc3 Qd5 and I don't know what happens next but there has to be some winning chances based on the Pawn structure.
click for larger viewVery educational position in any event. Figuring out <why> Rfe8 is so strong was a nice exercise. |
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Oct-13-11
| | OhioChessFan: Also interesting is why the LSB would take a Rook on e8 but not on c8. The Rook check down the d file is devastating. I could use a grammar lesson. In my last post, should I have said "there <have> to be some winning chances..."? |
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| Oct-13-11 | | achieve: <In my last post, should I have said "there <have> to be some winning chances..."?> Yes, OHIO, quite an amusing and understandible slip of concentration. Wish for El Maestro to punish? He will not do that. ;) There <has> to be do sound kinda cool, bro. |
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| Oct-13-11 | | hms123: <Dom> Now you know why I don't do lit crit. That line was way more sophisticated than most of what I read. A typical excerpt is: <How many times had she been shot? Just once.> It's a maths problem. (Or would the answer have to be 2 or more times?) |
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Oct-13-11
 | | Domdaniel: <Ohio> Nice ... and this was *Petrosian*, of all people, with a pile of tactics up his sleeve. In either case - 22...Rfe8 or ...Rac8 - the other Rook has to be free to go to the d-file. There must be a way of avoiding the have/has conundrum. Must be. Should be. Oughtta be. |
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Oct-13-11
| | OhioChessFan: The problem was in the contruction of the sentence the controlling noun was after the has/have. I don't think English lends itself to ex post facto noun/verb agreement. If I'd started with "Some winning chances" then of course, "have" is the choice. I don't know if the pronounish "There" is a collective singular or a reflection of the postcedent. Anyway, can the Tigers hang on? |
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Oct-13-11
| | Domdaniel: <Gagra 1953> As is now widely known, Gagra 1953 was a 'secret' training tournament in the old USSR, won by Smyslov ahead of Petrosian. The games only became widely available half a century later. Most, if not all, seem to have found their way into the CG database by now. Gagra is in Abkhazia, on the Black Sea, the site of recent territorial disputes between Russia and Georgia. For some idiotic reason, the Chessbase database misspells it as 'Garga', and certain websites have followed suit. They're wrong. |
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Oct-13-11
 | | jessicafischerqueen: <Dom> great post, I want to learn more about <GAGRA> now. I'm not surprised about <Messbase>, they are well-known to be illiterate in several languages. They're internationally sloppy. |
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Oct-13-11
| | Domdaniel: <Jess> Ta. Chess Life did a feature on Gagra, I think around 2009 (yes - Andy Soltis, August 2009, 'Going Gaga over Gagra'). Raymondo's Petrosian book analyzes some of the games - I think Kasparov does too, though I haven't seen the relevant volume. There's some very garbled info here, seems to be translated from Quebecois and then randomly spliced: http://chessrecords.quebecblogue.co... I've *seen* the article this is based on, along with a pile of game PGNs, but I can't seem to find it again. As well as Gagra and Garga, some sources give the site as Gagry. But 'Gagra' is used by the Abkhazian Tourist Board, so I'll stick with that. Confusingly, games from 'Gagra 1952' and 'Gagra 1958' are sometimes seen in databases: I don't know if other events were held there during those years. There are hints that the secret 1953 event wasn't the only one. http://books.google.ie/books?id=rvz... (wow) has a partial crosstable for Gagra-Voronova 1952, with Smyslov 1st, Botvinnik 2nd, and Petrosian last. But it also has crosstables for the championships of Manitoba and British Columbia, so maybe somebody just makes this stuff up for fun. Did you know that the British Championship in Cheltenham was played lying down? No gargling. |
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| Oct-13-11 | | crawfb5: Gagra 1953 crosstable from Rusbase:
http://al20102007.narod.ru/nat_tour... Gagra/Voronovo 1952 (training event run with 2 teams in "Scheveningen" format, everybody plays everybody on the other team): http://al20102007.narod.ru/nat_tour... Nothing listed for Gagra 1958. |
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Oct-13-11
| | Domdaniel: <crawf> Thanks. I don't know whether the following game was really '58 or is a 52-53 game with the wrong date: but it's in Chessbase. It's actually the *only* game to show in a search for 'Gagra' - the rest require either 'Garga' or 'URS training'. [Event "Gagra training"]
[Site "Gagra"]
[Date "1958.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Gurgenidze, Bukhuti"]
[Black "Petrosian, Tigran V"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B22"]
[EventDate "1958.??.??"]
[EventType "game"]
[EventRounds "1"]
[EventCountry "URS"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2000.11.22"]
1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. c4 Nb6 4. c5 Nd5 5. Bc4 e6 6. d4 d6 7. cxd6 cxd6 8. Nf3 Nc6 9. O-O Be7 10. Nbd2 O-O 11. Ne4 Nb6 12. Bd3 dxe5 13. dxe5 Nb4 14. Bb1 Qxd1 15. Rxd1 Bd7 16. a3 Ba4 17. Rd2 Rac8 18. Nc3 N4d5 19. Ne2 Rc7 20. Ba2 Rfc8 21. b3 Bb5 22. Bb2 Bxe2 23. Rxe2 Nc3 24. Rc2 Nxa2 25. Rxc7 Rxc7 26. Rxa2 Rc2 27. Nd4 Rd2 28. Kf1 Bc5 29. Ke1 Rxb2 30. Rxb2 Bxd4 31. Re2 Nd7 32. f4 Kf8 33. Kd2
g5 34. Kd3 Bg1 35. g3 g4 36. Rg2 Bb6 37. b4 f5 38. h3 h5 39. Rh2 Kg7 40. hxg4 hxg4 41. Rd2 Kf7 42. Kc4 Ke7 43. a4 Bc7 44. a5 Nf8 45. Rh2 a6 46. Rh8 Bb8 47. b5 axb5+ 48. Kxb5 Ba7 49. Rh2 Nd7 50. Rh7+ Kd8 51. a6 Bf2 52. axb7 Nb8 53. Rh2 Ba7 54. Ra2 Bg1 55. Rc2 Ba7 56. Rd2+ Kc7 57. Rd6 Bf2 58. Rxe6 Bxg3 59. Rf6 Bxf4 60. Rf7+ Kd8 61. Rxf5 Bh2 62. Kc5 Ke7 63. Kd5 g3 64. Rg5 Kf7 65. Kd6 Na6 66. Rg4 Nb8 67. Rg5 Na6 68. Kd5 Ke7 69. Rg7+ Kf8 70. Rg6 Nb8 71. Ke6 Na6 72. Kf6
1-0 |
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| Oct-13-11 | | crawfb5: Here's the original English that was translated to French(?) and translated back into garbled English: http://www.chessforums.org/general-... Oh, and the Rusbase crosstables in the previous post have links to download zipfiles of the games (all 48 from 1953 and 28 of 32 from 1952). |
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| Oct-13-11 | | crawfb5: <Gurgenidze> did not play in either 1952 or 1953 in Gagra, so this might have been another tournament (possibly misnamed) or some sort of training match. |
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Oct-13-11
| | Domdaniel: <Ohio> - < Anyway, can the Tigers hang on?>
The survival of big cats such as the Siberian and Bengal Tigers is indeed a matter of concern. But many beetles are in the same boat - or not in the same boat, in the Noachian sense - and nobody seems to give a hoot about them. |
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Oct-13-11
| | Domdaniel: Petrosian seems to have been partial to Gagra - one Russki photo agency has a shot of him on holiday there with his son. Maybe he bumped into Gurgenidze one day, and decided to play a Gurge in Gagra. 'Jokes' starting with the letter 'V' will be looked askance upon by the Management. |
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| Oct-14-11 | | LIFE Master AJ: <<Oct-13-11 Domdaniel: <AJ> I don't know whether you ever peek at the CG stats page - ChessGames.com Statistics Page - but I found myself checking it so often that I put in a direct link from my forum. Along with links to the CG forum, Biog Bistro, etc - of which more anon.
But first, congratulations - you are now at #38 in the list of all-time posters, with something over 10,000 posts. I'm surprised you weren't more prominent on the list already. When I first made the top 40, ages ago, roughly 3000 posts was enough. Now you need 10,000+, and even 20,000 just scrapes into the top ten. Jess, of course, remains far ahead, out beyond 30,000. Keep climbing ... What else? Oh, yeah - remember the last time <FlamingLemming> showed up and posted vile stuff about me? I was dumb enough to *name* him in a complaint on the CG forum. A few minutes later, I realized this would only draw people there, and deleted it. A lot of people read that page, and posting any explicit details of anything there is like advertising. So I won't do it again. Email is probably a better idea in such cases. Thirdly, good work on the Opera House game. I had some doubts when you said you were taking it on - not because it's difficult, but because it's so easy. It's also (cf stats page) the most popular game on CG. It's the one game that even I (never a particular Morphy fan) have been able to recite out loud since I was 16. How could there be anything new to say? But now I think you made a good move. It isn't about saying new stuff, at this stage - more about establishing your brand presence on YouChoob. Picking the most popular game ever is therefore a smart strategy. I hear it spilled over into the gamepage here? Oops. Admins won't take kindly to such desecration. Not your fault, of course. Cheers.> >
Thanks for the long post! Really!!!
Definitely not a good idea to give "you-know-who" (name recognition) ... its just what this person is craving. To me, its like trying to put out a fire in a pile of leaves ... by pouring gasoline on it. Had no idea where I was ... really. #38, huh? I guess next, I am off to check it out. Third thing - I chose the Morphy game, not because I am so smart, but simply it is one of my all-time favorite games. ALSO - my analysis was very old, when I first started working on it (on a PC) ... they had not even released Fritz 5.32 yet. (That was the first engine that was more of a tool than a toy, at least ... in my book, this would br true.) I was VERY curious to see if there was anything new ... |
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| Oct-14-11 | | LIFE Master AJ: ChessGames.com Statistics Page
NEVER saw that page before ... ... ... ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks - its in my header now as well. |
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Oct-14-11
| | Domdaniel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadler...
Sadler-Wells is the real Opera House game. |
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Oct-14-11
| | Domdaniel: <dak> As our conversation that went <dak: what's your favorite football team?dom: Ajax>
seems to have been deleted for non-relevance in the place where it was, I'm reconstructing it here, where nothing is irrelevant. I should point out that (since I'd already mentioned Sadler-Wells, Sadler's Wells, and Opera fans) that by Ajax I might have meant: (a) - Asynchronous Javascript XML ... there's even an Ajax spellchecker for the Opera browser, along with other webby dongles. Through the plashy fen the webby dongle wends.
No insult intended to any Wends who may be tuned in.
(b) The Nederlandic soccerball team of that name. Though anyone who names Ajax as their favorite team is probably a grey-bearded veteran of the Cruyff era. (c) An actual singing opera based on the Iliad in which Ajax is a character. I can't think of a major one, but there's an Ajax *puppet opera*. I can't confirm that they provide sock-warming facilities. Speakina football, I noticed recently that top Rugby players refer to their manager by his nickname, while zillionaire soccer players say 'Sir' or 'the gaffer'. It's feudal. I know there are other kinds of football -- Aussie Rules, Gaelic, and that American one -- but Rugby and soccer have genuine World Cups. A sport without a Mondial isn't a sport, it's a quaint local custom. And the World Series doesn't count -- it got its name from a local newspaper. |
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Oct-15-11
| | Domdaniel: <AJ> - <To me, its like trying to put out a fire in a pile of leaves ... by pouring gasoline on it. > Funny ... even before you wrote that, the line "I've been putting out fires with gasoline" had been running round and round in my head. And I can't even remember what song it's from. Something old and deeply unfashionable, no doubt. Your image reminds me of a headline in a school newsletter, when a teacher called Mr Burns retired -- <Master Burns Leaves>. |
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| Oct-15-11 | | hms123: <Dom> Thanks for the advice. As is often the case, i have the same opinion. New banner alert in your honour. |
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Oct-15-11
| | OhioChessFan: <And I can't even remember what song it's from. Something old and deeply unfashionable, no doubt.> David Bowie, Cat People. Sort of old, he's never unfashionable. |
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Oct-15-11
| | OhioChessFan: http://www.metrolyrics.com/cat-peop... |
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Oct-15-11
| | Domdaniel: <Ohio> Ahhh, the relief, thanks. I'd wrongly assumed it had to be an American songwriter due to the word 'gasoline', but Bowie was linguistically bi-Atlantical. 'Transatlantic' is different. That's when one simply dresses like people from the other side of the pond, like Rod Stewart, and Jimi Hendrix. There was a British/Northern Irish punk band called That Petrol Emotion. I doubt if they ever caught fire in the US. 'Never unfashionable' is right. I remember when his record company magisterially announced "There's old wave, there's new wave, and there's David Bowie". |
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Oct-15-11
| | jessicafischerqueen: "Pass the Celt, please."
<Dom> I need some Celt help. With regard to the city of Vienna, Wikipedia tells me that <The name Vindobona derives from a Celtic language, suggesting that the region must have been inhabited before Roman times.> Ok fair enough but "Vindabona" is Latinate- "good wine" and in fact Roman officers from the military camp they put here made a fortune exporting the fine wines from this region. When Wiki tells me "vindabona" <derives> from a Celtic language, do they mean something more than "Vindabona" used to be called something else? Or do they mean that the actual words "vin" and "bona" come originally from a Celtic language? I doubt that, but I need a Celt to help out here.
That's where you come in... |
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