| 
	
	| < Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 819 OF 963 · 
	Later Kibitzing> |  | Mar-20-12 |  | twinlark: Sad story. 
 What are friends for, after all? |  
	|  |  | Mar-20-12 |  | frogbert: <Here's another example of multi-targeting> some positions are simply too overwhelming. crashing through! :o) |  
	|  |  | Mar-20-12 |  | frogbert: <just because he's kindly stopped attacking <you>?> without taking a stand on this *specific* issue, i would argue that a) being nice to someone because they don't attack <you> is pretty much the site standard (while ignoring it if this someone attacks someone you don't care about) b) most kibitzers' "list" of nice/decent/good people include more than one kibitzer who treats or has treated *someone* (or several) on this site in questionable ways c) most people here would do the site a favour by rethinking the use of dichotomies like psycho/decent, good/bad and so on a classical chess board is squared and strictly white and black. the reality is usually not like that at all. |  
	|  |  | Mar-20-12 
  |  | Domdaniel: <frogbert> I like item (c). Well, really, I like items (a) and (b) as well, but I *particularly* like item (c). Such dichotomies are crude instruments at best, and almost useless when applied to complex entities like human beings. In most cases, what people object to (or admire) is some instance of or pattern of behavior, not a person. But their supposedly 'natural' response - file it with 'gut response', 'god-given right' and other comforting myths - is to attach a label to a person. Labels are generally misleading, even in supermarkets. Used as a form of characterization, they're hopeless. And yes, of course I'm sometimes guilty of such labelling. But I don't consider consistency a virtue. Here endeth the lesson. |  
	|  |  | Mar-20-12 |  | frogbert: we're all guilty of something, sometimes. it's still more fruitful to focus on what we do the rest of the time. |  
	|  |  | Mar-20-12 
  |  | Domdaniel: Quite. I'm technically guilty of all manner of heinous offences, but I don't tend to go in for associated *feelings* of guilt. Counterproductive, innit. |  
	|  |  | Mar-21-12 |  | MarkFinan: Hey <Dom>, iv'e read your friends comments, and i dont want you falling out with other people you're friends with just because i apologised, and i certainly dont want you turning Swedish just for me ;) !.. So i'm out of here mate, take care.. I do genuinely regret what i said back then though, and as long as i know that...... Or we could argue again, get you back to your 'Oirish roots' n all that.. Just kidding, peace out Dom.. |  
	|  |  | Mar-21-12 
  |  | Domdaniel: <MarkF> Yet *another* username? I don't know how you keep up with yourselves, I really don't. 'It' is just another of the misunderstandings to which this site seems given to these days. Dunno why. There's a lot of over-reacting going on, is how it looks to me. Mind you, out here in 'real life', I suggested recently to a shouty person that he was over-reacting, and he replied that I was under-reacting. It's a fair cop. |  
	|  |  | Mar-21-12 |  | MarkFinan: I think its a lack of communication, where im concerned anyway, i don't know others feel.. Anyway, its all out now, site history, personal history, the lot.. I dont even think my <nemesistic> username is permanently banned, but im not too bothered now, im glad.. And yeh, the usernames lol.. Well iv'e explained all that in my bio, so everyone knows.. BTW.. Because of the lack of communication im having, id like you to just have a look at my post at the Colonel's forum, because someone just blew the whistle on me for it, and i *genuinely* cant see what i said that was wrong!! I don't know.. |  
	|  |  | Mar-22-12 |  | frogbert: a rumour on the internet says that you should've been institutionalized by now, dom. are you feeling well? :o) |  
	|  |  | Mar-22-12 
  |  | Domdaniel: <frogbt> Exceptionally so. I'll be semi-human wreckage in a fortnight's time, burned out by the stress of perhaps fifteen tournament games. So I may as well enjoy it while I can. But I almost pity any institution that might even *try* to institutionalize me, as I know how to subvert them from within. |  
	|  |  | Mar-22-12 |  | hms123: <Dom> 
 <But I almost pity any institution that might even *try* to institutionalize me, as I know how to subvert them from within.> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJnK... |  
	|  |  | Mar-22-12 |  | frogbert: well, since you're feeling well - even great - your diagnosis may have been made by a layman or a quack who simply misjudged the symptoms. there seems to be a lot of that around here lately. |  
	|  |  | Mar-22-12 
  |  | Domdaniel: <frogbert> Yes, there has. I have certain theories of my own regarding the tonal phase-shift that came over CG in the last 18 months or so. In the old days, a troll was somebody inanely repeating stuff like "You're all bad playerss, the GM will crush you" ad nauseam, during a World-GM game. Idiotic but not particularly offensive. How things have changed. But I'll keep my theories to myself for the moment. Partly because they're convoluted and complicated - which has become sufficient cause for unintelligent persons to single out phrases, construe them as personal attacks, and respond with buckets of brainless ordure. And partly because my analysis would entail 'tweezering' certain individuals, and training strong microscopes on their little brains. It's not all about stupidity. Some very bright people have been caught up in it. And I've been known to make occasional mistakes about which side of the stupidity fence somebody belongs on. I can do without the hassle. Which is not quite the same thing as being turned into a Swede, or even a turnip. Takk. |  
	|  |  | Mar-22-12 
  |  | OhioChessFan: Re your post on cg.c forum, I understand the thought the whistle blower should be banned.  But isn't that treading a line of despotism, to wit,  "Anyone who dares to criticize us isn't welcome here."  I am nuanced enough to anticipate the counter argument, though I expect you could pull it off with a linguistic flair I might not reach.  Maybe in another post I'll set forth the primary arguments pro/con. Re frogbert and you and labelling black/white.   I try to avoid that, though it's only human nature to do it.   I deal best with that by my idea of compartmentalizing.  If the site can be helped by updating the Wiki article, I close the compartment door on the people who stress me on Rogoff or the AJ Battles and open the door to a group effort on Wiki.   If I read especially good analysis by a world class player who has freely given his work to this site for my benefit, I close the compartment door on his politics which make me scream, and open the door to gratefully acknowledge his contribution.   There's only one person on this site who I can't seem to pull that off with, and it's mostly because I haven't yet seen him contribute anything of a positive value to the site, and after a few hundred personal jabs, I'm a bit too sore to walk over and close the door.   Does any of this make sense? |  
	|  |  | Mar-22-12 
  |  | OhioChessFan: <Dom:  But I'll keep my theories to myself for the moment. Partly because they're convoluted and complicated - which has become sufficient cause for unintelligent persons to single out phrases, construe them as personal attacks, and respond with buckets of brainless ordure.> I know I have convoluted and complicated arguments, though I have just completed a post using the word <nuanced> which sounds so much better and makes me think much better of myself. |  
	|  |  | Mar-22-12 
  |  | Domdaniel: <MarkF> I had a look at your stuff in the Colonel's forum, and couldn't see anything that anyone would have reason to object to. Unless maybe some posts had been deleted before I arrived? Or some naive person who hasn't lived in the world got upset by your talk of being banged up? Some people can't handle the truth ... My only advice would be (1) go easy on the personal confessions for a while -- they're fine by me, and I know where you're coming from. But some don't, and they might try to use it against you -- and if you got pissed off with them, you're the one that would end up banned. And (2) -- stay away from the Chessgames.com 'advice' forum for a bit. Completely away. They've obviously decided to clean it up and stop people using it for arguments, or even for explanations about why the argument happened. I should maybe take the same advice myself. As for the 'Oirish' angle -- back when we were deadly enemies, I wondered why you didn't throw that one at me. After all, you were throwing damn near everything else, and I was being high-handed and contemptuous to provoke you. Silly, on both sides. But I did wonder about it ... Then it hit me that you're probably as 'Oirish' as I am. It's not the worst heritage to have, if you have to have a heritage. Though I prefer being a kind of rootless cosmopolitan with vague 'connections' to England, Denmark, and a few places in Ireland. I used to tell people that I was a Russian Rasta. They'd go "whaaaat?". I'd explain that a real Rasta was a Jamaican (usually) who felt his spiritual home was Africa ... and I was a British/Irish person with a 'spiritual' home in the chess-playing, vodka-drinking, Slavic lands to the east. Then loads of *real* Russians arrived, and everyone could see how pretentious I was being. So I stopped. And vodka isn't a good replacement for ganja, if you want to keep your liver working. |  
	|  |  | Mar-22-12 |  | boz: <I have certain theories of my own regarding the tonal phase-shift that came over CG in the last 18 months or so.> Yes, the site has become unrecognizable. Maybe what's needed is a good international chess event, even a dubious WC match would do. Something to take people's minds off infighting.  Better to blow off steam on something inherently meaningless, though nevertheless beautiful and so never entirely meaningless, like chess.  The crew has become like a band of sailors with nothing to do adrift on an open sea, years since land was seen or felt. A few more months of this and murder may not be out of the question. |  
	|  |  | Mar-22-12 
  |  | OhioChessFan: <lark: What are friends for, after all?> I suppose (and understand you might not agree) they are for carefully walking the line of supporting one another even when in disagreement, and calling one another to account when one side is plainly wrong. I don't think your question can be answered in a universally satisfactory way, since some people will fall anywhere along the line. And then there's the complicating factor of who gets to be the final arbiter of right/wrong. Not to mention cognitive dissonance issues. |  
	|  |  | Mar-22-12 |  | boz: Hey, sorry everybody, I didn't even realize I was posting on the <Domdaniel> forum. Didn't mean to butt in here. Anyway, as you were. |  
	|  |  | Mar-22-12 
  |  | OhioChessFan: I suppose if you don't know where you are, then this is the place to be. |  
	|  |  | Mar-22-12 
  |  | SwitchingQuylthulg: I don't think trolls or trolling now are any worse than they used to be - just more visible to someone who doesn't consistently go hopping usw :) |  
	|  |  | Mar-22-12 
  |  | Domdaniel: <Ohio> 'Nuanced' is a fine word, yes. But maybe what I really mean by 'convoluted and complicated' is that I don't yet understand them myself. I often find I have to write about something in order to grasp what I'm actually thinking -- before the writing, it's just a big disorderly mess. 'Inchoate' is an excellent term for it. I haven't got round to writing down everything I think about the CG situation(s), and the world can probably live without the (convoluted) essay that might result. The sort of thing editors used to throw back at me, saying "Yes, the ideas are good - but please put them in order, with a start and finish, and in terms that people might understand..." As for the, erm, substantive matter of despotism, the core point for me is taking a site-related grievance to a different forum, one that might actually harm CG's business. Of course AJ has a *right* to do that, though I think it's a nasty thing to do. I didn't say he should be automatically ejected. Just that, having done what he did with that complaint, I think he should walk away with whatever dignity is left. Others may disagree. It just gets sillier and sillier. He is apparently outraged for being put on probation along with a selection of 'troop' members, as though - how absurd - he was *anything* like them.  He's still waving his great big iggy list around, and now he wants a firewall round his games. He demands apologies for imagined offences. I've just had enough of the mania, the delusion, the vitriol, the bragging, and all the rest. CG would be better off without him. |  
	|  |  | Mar-22-12 
  |  | OhioChessFan: <Dom:  But maybe what I really mean by 'convoluted and complicated' is that I don't yet understand them myself. I often find I have to write about something in order to grasp what I'm actually thinking -- before the writing, it's just a big disorderly mess. 'Inchoate' is an excellent term for it.> Holden would agree that sometimes you don't know what is important and what you want to talk about until you start talking about it. |  
	|  |  | Mar-22-12 |  | boz: <OhioChessFan: I suppose if you don't know where you are, then this is the place to be.> Yes, I could do worse. I just didn't want anyone to think that my comments had any bearing on the people that frequent this place. Here it's mostly peaceful. And when it's not, at least it's slightly incomprehensible. |  
	|  |  
												|  |  |  |  
	| < Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 819 OF 963 · 
	Later Kibitzing> |  |  |  |