I just don't want to be made to look a fool though! I know i'm nowhere near as good as i used to be..

I live a stone's throw from Mark Crowther, who i believe is the brains behind TWIC, so i'm going to speak to him first and see what he thinks, and where he recommends i start..

Im kinda jealous of you guy's who play in teams, and leagues now in a way..

<Dom>.. 6 months ago i would never have said this, but i *kinda* feel a bit for you here!

You try get on with everyone, and you generally do.. But when that "Lady" keeps coming here and kicking off with the other people you enjoy speaking to yourself, i don't know how you stop yourself from telling her to just "Get lost"?

Because id personally just tell her... "Tweezer", anyone you like, but PLEASE DO NOT ATTACK PEOPLE PERSONALLY IN MY FORUM!!

And not just that Dom (Iv'e been peaking i admit.. Never again!) but she comes here telling *you* she's disgusted with *you* for being friends with someone she doesn't like!!!

She says "Im not like Jess.. I wont change my mind within 24 hours.. I won't be back till you blah blah blah fall out with everyone i don't like", or something very very similar.. Then *exactly* a day later...... Yup, she's back!

And back with a vengance too!!

She orders people about, and she's thoroughly unpleasant to all who come here!!

I consider you a friend here now Dom, and we get on fine, but come on???? She's got pure hatred for people, and the crazy thing is she called me "psychotic, sub human, filth" because i *haven't* attacked her!! Eh??

I think id better shut up now, but you're one of the most intelligent men iv'e never met... I know you can see what she's up to..

You *sure*? I could've sworn it grazed my left ear. Damn near took it off.

And, um, a 'self-congratulatory' tone is hardly a novelty from me. I can be downright pompous at times.

Some other time, maybe, I'll ponder the curiosity of the situation. Am I under fire/ subject to criticism/ plain wrong for *failing to attack* MarkF? Who apparently only understands the language of force?

I don't speak it like a native, true, but I know some of the dialects.

This is called 'playing the experience card' while refusing to reveal the relevant experience. Bit pointless, rilly.

<Domdaniel> Sorry of your game loss, hope it provide a better idea of what not to do next time you encounter that situation across the board

I was angry at you for making a superficial reply to <Annie's> original post on this subject- that appears to have angered her and she ended up posting an embarrassing (but all too true) fact about my own personality, in order to get you to understand that she was not just talking off the top of her head.

No, I don't like your penchant to give flip and unconsidered replies to serious posts. That doesn't mean I don't like *you*.

I'm dead certain there are lots of my penchants you don't like as well.

"Takes one to know one"- no I don't like your pomposity, when it comes out, but I really doubt anyone would consider me less pompous than you.

see my post in jfq's forum!

<she's thoroughly unpleasant to all who come here>

this seems like an exaggeration to me, since it's hardly true even when limited to her behaviour to today's visitors, and she's also been pleasant to me (here) on previous occasions. when it comes to talking about nasty things people *do* instead of saying that someone *is* nasty, this statement might just be within the limit of describing an action - people more versed in the finer semantics of the english language will have to be the judge on that.

regarding this "declaration" of dom's:

<Everyone here is invited to discuss, analyze, or tweezer everyone else.

The subject's permission is not required, nor can it be withheld or revoked. The only requirement is to stay within the rules. The relevant rule is the one saying 'no personal attacks'.>

two comments:

1) dom has invited you, markfinan (as part of the "everyone"), to tweezer everyone else here, given conformance to the rules.

2) the form just as much as the content (probably the form a bit more) leads me to feel that your latest post crosses the line to being easily construed as a personal attack.

however, i think only smaller adjustments could've been made to get within what *my interpretation* of dom's skin thickness would classify as "reasonable criticism". exactly which adjustments i'll leave as an exercise for the reader.

And in future i'll not even discuss anything with you, as when people have insulted you before, or said they find you, well a bit patronising i guess, iv'e always disagreed and defended you..

Maybe i was wrong about you?

Anywhoooo, i'll let you crazy kids "Tweezer" people, because i think that says a lot more about you than me!

markfinan, i honestly don't think i said anything about *you* - i made an honest assessment of one <post> of yours, where i happen to agree with the essence of your message, even if i think it would be more constructive to formulate it slightly differently.

before i continue, allow me a small recap from 3 days ago, venue: my player page.

---

frogbert:

being my friend *might* result in honest and sincere comments, also on other things than your chess games. but if you're up for it, then no problem!

MarkFinan:

Oh...Im up for it alright :)

---

then, back to your post!

<i suggest you go back a few pages and you'll see what a *real* personal attack is, on yours truly>

i certainly and absolutely agree that annie's attack on you was of a totally different kind - magnitudes worse in any way. while i said that your post could be *construed* as a personal attack, annie's attack was more like a text book example of a vicious attack on another person and his character.

the difference is, i don't consider annie a friend (at this point in time), so i don't feel any urge or desire to go around commenting on or giving advice to her about her behaviour, as long as she isn't addressing me. with you, it's different.

<when people have insulted you before, or said they find you, well a bit patronising i guess, iv'e always disagreed and defended you..>

and i appreciate that a lot, and i've assumed that you sincerely meant that. i still hope you did.

<Maybe i was wrong about you?>

that highly depends on what you have thought about me (i'll just remind you that i just suggested that we'd play some chess, and that i offered advice if it turns out that i'm in a position to provide that to you, chess-wise. in other words, i consider you a friend, or i wouldn't have made such a suggestion to begin with.)

here's a couple points that you might use to judge whether you were wrong about me or not:

1) i'm not a "group person". this doesn't mean i can't be loyal to others, because i certainly am in several senses, but typically on an individual basis. except for my employer, i don't typically show loyalty to "groups". i'm very much an individual.

2) i don't do what people expect me to do simply to do what people expect me to do. i try to be honest and sincere, even when it's possibly easier (and/or "smarter", as it would've been in this case) to a) say nothing, or b) not say what i really think. i do sometimes say nothing, but i never say things i don't actually mean. i suck at faking compliments.

3) i think it would be really sad if you actually stop talking to me, for whatever reason.

<i'll let you crazy kids "Tweezer" people, because i think that says a lot more about you than me!>

personally i don't think such "tweezering" is a very good idea, but since it's going to take place whether i like it or not, i think it would be enlightening to follow up on where people's "limits" actually are for considering something a personal attack or not. my main working hypothesis is that at the end of the day very few people enjoy being the target of very harsh personal criticism, and hence are much more likely to be fine with it when it targets others and *not* be fine with it when it targets themselves.

I really am not *one* little bit like any of you!

You all analyse posts word for word and rip each other new ones, you're all two a bit two faced, and my solitary brain cell is very very tired..

This is a chess site, i *really* didn't expect all this arguing over the most ridiculous and petty things when i first joined! (and yeh yeh i have been guilty myself, but for those reasons just read my bio).

Right im off to go play CHESS with <brankat> for an hour before i get my head down..

<frogbert> I see your point mate, but im outta here for tonight..

there are different reasons for head ache and sometime head aches are caused because of focusing only on the mathematical part of quantum physics (pragmatist physics as opposed to realist physics) and not grasping the concept of 'hard problem of consciousaness'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_p...

<domdaniel :not "Einstein is a moron" but instead "Einstein can be seen as a moron".>

or one could say 'in this instance , Einstein acted like moron. one could be gentle and say Einstein acted thoughtlessly etc. in that particular instance but one has to specify the instance.

coming back to head aches, when i have head ache , generally, it is because i am either a thinking moron or acting moron at the time. so i focus on being a 'being genius' i.e. i stop doing and thinking and just be - meditation.

<brankat: Version 4.0 may not be quite adequate. More like 11.0 :-)>

<Jess> I'm not going to list my people-reading credentials: you know about stuff like interviewing writers and filmmakers, and writing fiction. There's more, but I don't want to adopt the <frogbert> style of addressing issues relentlessly in minute detail.

Hence the 'flip' thing: I'm a human flipchart. Also a fairweather friend, that's reasonable. I don't really care much what people think of me -- here, real life, anywhere else. No need to impress 'em, yanno.

As for the comments etc by Annie and my apparent non-understanding: I didn't say anything at the time because I didn't *want* to say anything. By using words like 'disgust', Annie was talking the language of emotion. I prefer to avoid that: it's not a matter of understanding.

But I don't privilege people's feelings, I don't think deeply-held beliefs should be respected for being deeply held, and I consider neither sincerity nor consistency to be virtues.

That's what I *think*. You'll easily find counter-examples, where I say one thing and do another. That's etiquette, or maybe hypocrisy. I do both.

Luckily, I'm also able to put things completely out of my mind, and not think about them at all. Frogspawn, CG, and all who sail in 'em are hereby banished for at least 12 hours.

Click.

PS, before I go. It's a truism, innit, that people around your age are liable to *change* more than people my age, who tend to be stuck in their ways. So 'you' have maybe become more 'mature' in the past five years? While I've hardly changed at all: still refusing to grow up.

Very ill. He'd got hepatitis C - the really bad one - from a dodgy soviet blood transfusion, and his doctors gave him less than a 20% chance that his liver would last a year.

Well, he's had a liver transplant in Israel, and is feeling great, and is already planning to go travelling in Europe with his wife. A couple of months ago, he couldn't walk.

So, good news. I'm really pleased, cos he's one of my heroes. Apparently he says that Israel is the best place in the world to have a liver transplant. Must be all those healthy young ... what am I saying? Don't go there, Dom, don't *spoil* the moment.

Anyway, I heard all this from Alex Baburin, who's a good friend of Lev. I'm very pleased. Thought I'd let you know.

I've known people who got hep C -- there was a lot of it in the needle-using fraternity. Most of them are dead now. The survivors, some of 'em, are into *meditation* ... which is where I came in.

however, it seems that more conflicts arise from a lack of nuances than from an abundance of them. besides, my perception apparatus tends to work on a rather fine-grained level. i'm not sure if the factory settings can be changed (or if so: how) this many years after delivery.

<frogbert> I appreciate your offer of help, and i'm certainly not refusing it, but Mark Crowther lives so close to me i was just thinking aloud that he should be able to tell me exactly which of our local clubs i could start off at..

Where i live we have Polish chess clubs, Lithuanian chess clubs, and so on, and i know he would direct me towards the most suitable for me at this moment in time..

another slim 2,5-3,5 loss today for the boys (well, and girl - in fact olga was the only one who won a game today), when 3-3 would've been just enough to save the place (on individual points - match points count first in the norwegian league).

In fact, let me get back to you later <frogbert>, because i may as well use my old handle.. I think iv'e only played one or two games whilst drunk this year, but i may as well play a rated game!!

It'll make me concentrate more, being sober and knowing points are at stake..