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M61MG Wrestler
Member since Jun-28-09 · Last seen Nov-05-14
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   M61MG Wrestler has kibitzed 26 times to chessgames   [more...]
   Nov-05-14 M61MG Wrestler chessforum (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: ==== <James Demery> The link has been updated to this one: Robert James Fischer As the owners of this website clean up the old trash, the links above get broken. You called on an investigation of the M61MG book's legitmacy, and Trice's puppet <hackmate> made up a
 
   Jun-16-14 Viktor Korchnoi (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: <petrosianic: a few words that Fischer didn't even say (see "My 61 Memorable Games Hoax"). > http://www.chessgames.com/perl/ches... .
 
   Sep-27-12 Adams vs Gelfand, 2012 (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: Whereas Adams is seventh place....he needs to try harder. :)
 
   Feb-15-12 Bobby Fischer (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: <♗=== UGH ===♗> <Joshka: <rannewman> Those notes were collected and written over decades, and according to reports I've read, they measure some 22 inches high stacked on top of one another! The bootlegged book was printed in Iceland 2007. IM Larry ...
 
   Jun-23-11 jessicafischerqueen chessforum (replies)
 
...
 
   Aug-12-09 chessgames.com chessforum (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: In my profile I am having difficulty getting certain lines to separate, without adding a blank line in between. How can I ensure that a line of text starts on a new line? Here is an example that DOES NOT SEPARATE with a carriage return: Evans 1st M61MG Article ...
 
   Jul-25-09 Kibitzer's Café (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: ♗/////NO ONE BANNED\\\\\ ♗ Reminder to all: If you want to discuss or investigate the book "My 61 Memorable Games", I invite you to visit my chessforum. Other sites on the internet may not allow the discussion from all users that takes place on my forum.
 
   Jul-25-09 Shirov vs R Panjwani, 2009 (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: ♗/////NO ONE BANNED\\\\\ ♗ If you want to discuss or investigate the book "My 61 Memorable Games", I invite your to visit my chessforum, on which no CG.COM user is banned from participating. Other sites on the internet may not allow the discussion that takes ...
 
   Jul-03-09 H Olafsson vs P Smirnov, 2008 (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: ♗////LINKS NEEDED\\\\♗ I'm looking for good links to headline the "Uncovering the Truth" page. See the short kibitz history on my forum. Improvements solicited, and most welcome.
 
   Jun-29-09 chancho chessforum (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: New location for discussing "My 61 Mem Games", including all* previous posts on that topic from Mrs. Alekhine's forum. Click my Avatar to join in. Anyone is welcome. *some pruning has occurred on irrelevant posts.
 
(replies) indicates a reply to the comment.

Uncovering the Truth About M61MG

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 20 OF 54 ·  Later Kibitzing>
May-28-09  GeauxCool: Maybe Trice was too busy transcribing all of the Bobby anecdotes that he had taped during their meeting, so he couldn't leave his hotel room.
May-28-09  GeauxCool: These are some of <Pinned Piece>'s questions that never got answered, in case anyone wants to take a shot at them.

<Challenge #1: try analyzing even 1 Fischer game, with 10 pages of valid variations, using a computer if you want, inserting fresh comments that make sense to (and enlighten) expert and above chess players. And be sure to throw a couple new position diagrams in along the way. Insert some deep-history comments that fit the times the game was played during. What are the odds you are going to fool any given chess writer with your comments?

Keep track of how long that took you. Multiply by 60. What kind of minimum timeline we looking at?>

May-28-09  GeauxCool: <Challenge #2: Explain convincingly to me how a con-man would have the nerve to announce the publication of a book that *HE KNEW* Fischer would denounce while he was alive, *AND YET* be afraid to put it on the open market even now with Fischer gone.>
May-28-09  GeauxCool: <Challenge #3: Explain how and why a con-man intentionally leaves visible and reportable tracks--including his own public, exaggerated foreshadowing of what was coming--when later exposure will make him the center of ridicule in the Fischer legacy? And when--like Fischer--he has his own game version he is desperately trying to promote rather than "traditional chess"?>
May-28-09  GeauxCool: <Challenge #4: Explain why anyone, con-man or not--would want the world to think that someone else was responsible for their tremendous achievement of "improving a classic"--even if it was as delusional as Fischer's belief that UBS had turned him into a pauper (if he in fact did believe that)?>
May-28-09  GeauxCool: I posted those for the sake of completion, <Pinned Piece>, maybe you've already seen through them.
May-28-09  GeauxCool: <Pinned Piece> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5t7x...
May-28-09  GeauxCool: That's an antser to one of your old questions.
May-28-09  MageOfMaple: <Challenge #1> Until the book is available for inspection, I'm not convinced that all this was accomplished. And no, Mr. Day's word is not good enough. And even if it took a few years, what does that mean? EAT obviously has time on his hands.

<Challenge #2: Explain convincingly to me how a con-man would have the nerve to announce the publication of a book that *HE KNEW* Fischer would denounce while he was alive, *AND YET* be afraid to put it on the open market even now with Fischer gone.>

Because the scam changed. At first, when he was talking with Labate and probably others; there was no grand announcement. It was all hush-hush, don't tell anyone, but send me lots of money in advance. When that didn't work, it was an ebay auction for sealed boxes of "books" that didn't even provide a picture. Then that didn't work, but he was too heavily invested in the scheme and too arrogant to let it go. So he finished the book, had it printed, and tried to sell copies descretely. Why was he afraid to put it on the open market? Obviously, because he didn't want to go to jail.

<Challenge #3: Explain how and why a con-man intentionally leaves visible and reportable tracks--including his own public, exaggerated foreshadowing of what was coming--when later exposure will make him the center of ridicule in the Fischer legacy? And when--like Fischer--he has his own game version he is desperately trying to promote rather than "traditional chess"?>

Taking those in reverse order - Why promote "traditional chess"? Because he's trying to get rich. He's tried that with Goatlick Chess, too, but it hasn't exactly been working. And why leaving tracks, foreshadowning, etc? Well, just because he's a con man doesn't mean he's good at it. Clearly he's not. And it's probably not a lack of intelligence, and certainly not a lack of trying. It's a lack of self control. The dude can't keep his mouth shut, and can't even pretend to be a normal person, or, heaven forbid, a nice person, for even an hour without reverting to his pugnacious, beligerant, crazy self. It's pretty obvious that his lies and schemes are not exactly planned or well thought out, isn't it?

<Challenge #4: Explain why anyone, con-man or not--would want the world to think that someone else was responsible for their tremendous achievement of "improving a classic"--even if it was as delusional as Fischer's belief that UBS had turned him into a pauper (if he in fact did believe that)?>

Money. And maybe the secret satisfaction of proving your intellect is on par with Fischer's (after all, how else could your words be mistaken for his?)

May-28-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  chancho: <GeauxCool> As far as someone having the nerve to publish a book of someone that was still alive, this fella was brazen enough:

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/...

I'm sure you already knew this. ;)

May-28-09  PinnedPiece: <<GeauxCool>Keep track of how long that took you. Multiply by 60. What kind of minimum timeline we looking at?> >
I think a fair point has been made--by you (I'm too lazy to research it!) or Chancho that at least half the book was already written. Let's say, multiply by 30. If this isn't a full-time job, I would estimate half a year. (one game a week, approx. --Fritz needs time.)

Maybe <IMlday> could provide a better (theoretical) guess.

May-28-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  chancho: <Maybe Trice was too busy transcribing all of the Bobby anecdotes that he had taped during their meeting, so he couldn't leave his hotel room.>

Yeah, in Philly. :-) I have to repeat this: In the chessgames.com post Trice is saying he was in Iceland on November 8, of 2007 and never met Einar, but in the e-mail from Labate's site, Trice is telling Einar (November 8, 2007) that he's interested in <<<returning to that country>>>. Why say that if he was already there? And the next day on November 9, 2007 he even finds time to write a post with a hidden message about Fischer's kidney problems in chessgames.com. November 9, 2007. The date that appears in M61MG.

May-28-09  GeauxCool: <chancho> I was interpreting that Einar had been 'approached' on Nov.8th, to mean physically 'approached', but English is his 2nd language. Ed didn't 'approach' but sent an email to him. And the word "mention" was used by Trice in his email twice. The first time, I had interpreted this as face to face talking, but then he uses it again to mean email communication. So you're right. It all happened via email.

Ed Trice = -1 point

May-28-09  GeauxCool: <MageoMaple> has some clear common sense answers. I'd add for Challenge #2, that maybe through the sale of the books in large volumes, Ed was taking the risk for a big score and a quick getaway. Had he succeeded, then by the time the sellers figured it out something was wrong, Ed would be safely hiding out somewhere in Tunisia.
May-28-09  GeauxCool: Two Letters
---

Dear Mr. Fischer,

As you requested, I had contacted various book printing services and outlets that specialize in mass production of Perfect Bound books. I had solicited quotes for your upcoming release of "My 61 Memorable Games" with an intended December 1 release date.

The belief is that the book can sell for more than $19.95 without impacting the demand curve. One suggestion is to sell it for $5 more, at $24.95 each, with an initial press run of 100,000 units. This will be more cost effective, and with a higher list price, I believe your $710,000 mark can be reached much more quickly, and, in fact, I can get you much closer to $900,000 within 30 days of its release.

The cost for 50,000 units is $73,275.00 and for 100,000 it would be $96,400.00. A sellout of:

50,000 would generate $1,247,500 in gross revenues, $1,174,225 after payment for printing, leaving $939,380 after my 20% allocation.

100,000 would generate $2,495,000 in gross revenues, $2,398,600 after printing costs, leaving $1,918,880 after my allocation.

At this point we need to examine the cost of high volume sales, which is typically achieved through distributor and reseller relationships, or, as you suggested, by acquiring BobbyFischer.com from Jason and reselling it through a turnkey fulfillment center being driven from that web site.

Jason currently is asking for $65,000 to turn over the domain to me, which you already instructed me not to pursue. If you are still interested in dealing with Jason, let me know. Maybe he will agree to host the sale of your book for a much better rate than resellers who are used to 50% margins. Perhaps he will accept the first $65,000 in sales in exchange to turn over the domain to me. I will discuss it with him if you would like me to pursue this course.

Most resellers buy in bulk at 50% discounts. We would need to specify minimum purchases for these bulk buyers, and also establish the discount rate for them. Maybe we can offer 30% discounts 500+, 40% discounts on up to 1000, and 50% discounts on over 1000. This is just an idea, again, I will let you tell me what you would like to do.

Also, if you go the route of the higher volume purchase, I would need to take on at least one partner to help out with the capital outlay over the $73,000. This money needs to be paid up front, and with no inbound revenue prior to December, I would be too long with too large of a drought to justify tying up more money.

Please let me know how you would like to proceed.

I am ever your friend,

Ed Trice

May-28-09  GeauxCool: ====follow-up====

I completed up to and including page 145. I am starting to understand his writing better and most of the diagrams are exactly as in his previous book. I hired a consultant to just create all of the diagrams in "My 60" and email them to me. This has been a great time saver.

The new procedures for the book ordering process:

If you are the person who placed the order for 5,000 books, you have qualified for the one-time 50% discount rate. Everyone else will get their first order quantity at 45% and 35% on all re-orders forever after this.

The 50% tier pays $12.48 per book.
The 45% tier is $13.72 per book.
The 35% tier is $16.22 per book.

The selling price is $24.95 per book.

To set things in motion:

1. Put 25% down on your total order no later than October 1. This is more to finalize your quantities and confirm your purchase. <This check should be made out to Edward Trice> at the address I will furnish later. If your check arrives after October 1, I have been instructed not to accept your order.

The 5,000 book order needs to send $15,600.
Everyone else, send $3430 per 1000 copies.

2. I will enclose a PDF file that you MUST print, sign, and return to Fischer in Iceland. PLEASE KEEP THIS ADDRESS CONFIDENTIAL! I will sent this out this coming week.

3. Your 75% final payment must be in Canadian dollars, using the October 1 exchange rate, and this must be a bank check made payable to cash and sent to Fischer in Iceland. PLEASE DOUBLE CHECK WITH ME before sending this out! Fischer says if anyone is off by more than a nickle, high or low, he won't send the books!

This payment is due November 1 at his Iceland address.

4. You must include a separate Canadian bank check for the shipping cost. This is a function of your ZIP code and quantity, so please send me just the ZIP code so I can help Fischer with this item.

5. On December 1, the books will ship to the person with the highest order count. On December 10, all of the other books will be sent out.

Notes:

If you are having trouble the with "Canadian money" portion, I have a sister-in-law that lives in Hull, Quebec, and she has agreed to help people who are in need of it. If you are being charged exhorbitant fees or this becomes to much a pain for you, send me an email. DON'T WAIT UNTIL THE LAST MINUTE to resolve this issue! Fischer WILL NOT accept a check drawn against a U.S. Bank!

In other news: The book cover artwork is done, including an unpublished photo of fischer taken only a few months ago. It looks very good!

Please reply back so that I know you have received this email.

Thank you.

--Ed Trice

May-28-09  Jim Bartle: "50,000 would generate $1,247,500 in gross revenues, $1,174,225 after payment for printing, leaving $939,380 after my 20% allocation."

First, that's a ridiculously high initial print run; 100,000 would be insane. Obviously if anywhere near that many were printed we'd be seeing them around; people we know would have bought it.

Second, Trice seems to be saying he can print 50,000 books for $1.50 each. That book will cost a lot more than that to print, no matter how large the run. Also, he's simply ignoring all the other costs involved in producing a book, which add up. I don't see any suggestion as to who's putting up the money for printing and other production costs; I guess that's where he wanted cash up front from dealers like LaBate.

Third, is he talking about selling the book to the public for $25, or to book dealers? If it's the former, once again he's ignoring a lot of costs, plus he simply shows no plan for selling directly to the public. It's not that easy. If it's the latter (wholesale sales at $25), it's a little more reasonable, but in general that's not the way bookstores or websites work.

Fourth, the supposed percentage going to Fischer is extremely, impossibly high for any author--UNLESS the author is risking his cash to have it produced.

I just don't see any immediate demand for 50,000 or 100,000 copies of this book, Fischer or no Fischer. And if it didn't sell, somebody would be out a lot of cash, with a basement full of books.

Hard for me to tell if Trice was fooling himself (in over his head),trying to scam bookdealers, or trying to scam Fischer.

May-29-09  GeauxCool: <Mr. Fischer will offer an addtional 5% off on the first person to order 1000 or more books, one time only, up to and including the whole 50,000 copies.>

<JB> I think that maybe Trice was using the figures as a trick of persuasion. He says that Fischer needs X, but that the book sales will generate almost 3X, so he's just setup the rationale that Fischer can afford to give large discounts. In the next letter he says that you've just got to pay 25% of that, further incentive. And for those squeamish to send money to Ed Trice, recall that 20% is his allocation fee, the risk is 5%, so don't worry. Besides, you can send the rest of the money to Bobby later on.

Yep, I think it's very persuasive.

- More -

<Pinned Piece> In the first paragraph, second letter, we read a refutation of sorts against his Mar 23 conversation with you where he related that there were as many as 5 different Icelandic editors working solely in Iceland on the manuscript.

----

<Ed Trice: <PinnedPiece: I would guess a well-educated Icelander. Which brings me to my main point>

All of the work done on that book took place in Iceland. There were at least 3 editors working on it full time with an occasional 4th or 5th person helping out. Only first names were used, and sometimes more than one person was "sharing" a name, when it was obvious the same person was not "responding".

That is about it in terms of information that I am aware of, and I think that's about as far as it can be advanced.>

----

In the letter, dated September, we read that it's just him, and then later a partner is used to make diagrams (Gene_M?). Additionally, he's admitted to writing 145 pages, almost meeting <Pinned Piece> half-way in his challenge for recorded effort. And this plus the fact that Trice has apparently lied to <Pinned Piece> (was Trice in Iceland in Sept 2007) says to me that the challenge has been reasonably answered.

<JB> I don't think Trice had any intention of printing any large volumes of books. I think he was just a broken man by then. He had dreams of Glory: rescuing Bobby from the world's denial, and lifting up gothiches as the true alternative to classical. Ed Trice received semi-fame for 2 years. But his dreams never came to fruition, and all because Bobby refused to meet with him. His world crashed in around him. So maybe part of this project was done for vindictive purposes against Bobby, but that would assume that Trice has a vindictive personality.

Curious is that Ed was reading a treasure hunting book when he first arrived in Iceland. It was the story about a sunken ship with the most extraordinary collection of gold items aboard. The trouble is that the crew had no money to collect any of it. I think Bobby was Ed Trice's sunken ship, and I think he realized that he wasn't going to get the gold. I think that the M61 became a way for Ed to get something back after all that wasted time.

May-29-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  chancho: <Ed Trice:> <PinnedPiece: I would guess a well-educated Icelander. Which brings me to my main point>

<All of the work done on that book took place in Iceland. There were at least 3 editors working on it full time with an occasional 4th or 5th person helping out. Only first names were used, and sometimes more than one person was "sharing" a name, when it was obvious the same person was not "responding".>

<That is about it in terms of information that I am aware of, and I think that's about as far as it can be advanced.>

This just boggles the mind. Trice is aware of information about how this book was worked on, and he volunteers the info on this site in spite of the fact that he accused Labate of being the architect of the M61MG book scam early on.

I said it before, and I'll say it again: It's madness!

May-29-09  GeauxCool: <chancho> I think you're right. It is madness. There's a paragraph in a letter which illustrates this, I'll post it, but first I wanted to thank you for the link to the Howard Hughes fraud. Here's another:

Top 10 Literary Frauds
http://www.time.com/time/specials/p...

May-29-09  GeauxCool: Here it is. About a week after the others:

----
<Say you want 500 books but you don't feel like sending Canadian money to Bobby based on the October 1 exhange rate of USD versus Canadian $$. I can ship them directly to you, cutting out all of the nonsense. You can then sell them at your leisure, and you will have them at once. Even if Bobby orders an audit whenever, I can say you ordered 500 books that day, so all will balance out. He will ship the books to you, but you will have already sold them, so you can hold onto them until your next order, or, if Fischer audits me, I can pay for you to ship them back to me so I can reship to Bobby so that the audit is passed.> ----

Even in Fantasy Land, Trice is conceiving about ways to cheat Fischer, and also selling the idea that he will take over:

<Once he sees how much work is involved, I expect he will turn things over to my team.>

May-29-09  Edward Labate: <May-26-09 hackmate: I wonder why Ed Labate is banned from posting here on chessgames.com ; Does anyone know why Ed Labate is banned? ; Does anyone know what Ed Labate said to get banned?> Obviously, I’m not banned. I got tired of arguing with D players.

Fischer denied he had anything to do with M61MGH. Please name one other author who has written a book, and then denied it! Fischer denied writing it, his closest and dearest friends knew nothing of it, fellow grandmasters didn't even recognize the writing style, and there were no notes left behind in his estate to validate his involvement.

Yet, we have a ‘Self-satisfying’ IM who’s lived several lives since the 18th century, as the #1 voice of reasoning, we have that living brain donor, Joshka/Tattoo Towell (‘dee book, dee book’), and of course, the most hated man in chess, the ‘Philly Phraud’, Ed Trice, as the only three voices claiming its authenticity. And Trice knows it’s a fraud because he’s behind it.

These two clowns (Joshka/Tattoo Towell & Trice) are ignorant of the basic fundamentals of critical thinking: Those postulating the claim have the burden of proof. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It’s not up to the listeners/readers to refute a position. The burden of proof is upon the claimant in order to satisfy the evidentiary requisites for the claim being accepted.

“My position is accurate because you can’t refute it!” is laughably flawed. Using that logic Fischer’s doctors COULD have been behind the My 61 Memorable Games scam because they knew he only had a few months to live before even Fischer knew!!

The inability to ‘explain away’ a position doesn’t satisfy the evidentiary requisites for the claim being accepted. The scientific method doesn’t allow for the statements, ‘you have to admit’, ‘no explanation how’, ‘prove it doesn’t exist’, ‘well, that’s your opinion’.

Don’t ever forget that the default position in an extraordinary claim is disbelief. Hearing of Fischer’s denial of any involvement, It’s not up to us to prove disprove Fischer’s involvement, it’s up to the claimants to prove their positions with facts and evidence that would clearly prove that Bobby Fischer lied, and not with statements that start out with: ‘Well explain how….’

On another note, I have sold labatechess.com to USCF Sales in total. After 34 years, I am 100% out of the retail chess business! I have relocated to Boardman, Ohio (55 NW of Pittsburgh, 75 SE of Cleveland), and just got my internet back up less than couple hours ago.

I am now retired, and plan on pursuing a playing career with hopes of getting back to 2300+, masters track and field (shot put/discus), and two to three walks a day with the most loyal friend I’ve ever had, my pup Wendy!!

This will be my final post on any message group. Arguing with faceless, nameless cowards has been a tremendous waste of my life, and I no longer wish to continue this colossal blunder!

Thank you all for your friendship and support through the years and especially through these last 18 months, arguing with the clown of a thousand sock puppets, EAT (Ed A. Trice).

Most of you who have emailed me in the past will get my new email within a few days, and of course, I would be delighted and honored to keep contact with each and every one of you that I have previously exchanged emails with. It has been a real pleasure to have made so many new friends through what may be, the darkest moment in chess publishing history. See you all in emails.

Warmest Regards and Best Wishes,
Edward Labate, Boardman, Ohio.

May-29-09  PinnedPiece: <Edward Labate: On another note, I have sold labatechess.com to USCF Sales in total. >

What happens to the M61MG emails etc. surely new owners will do some pruning....

.

May-29-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  chancho: Mr Labate wants to forget about Trice and the book mess.

I say good for him.

May he enjoy his retirement to the fullest.

May-29-09  MageOfMaple: Doesn't matter anymore, PinnedPiece. This "mystery" is over. It has been for a long time.

Ok, we don't know exactly what the heck was going through EAT's twisted mind as he veered violently from left to right, from storyline to storyline, in what you (correctly) described as a crazy, ill-conceived, careening caper. And we probably never will. But does it really matter?

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