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Apr-17-10
 | | OhioChessFan: Looking some more at John 13:29
Since Judas had charge of the money, some thought Jesus was telling him to buy what was needed for the Feast, or to give something to the poor. What does John mean by "the Feast"? The week long celebration. Here's how John used the same word in other passages: John 7:14 Not until halfway through the Feast did Jesus go up to the temple courts and begin to teach. John 7:37 On the last and greatest day of the Feast, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. Both of those make clear John understood the feast to be the week long celebration, not the one special day. The apostles in John 13 thought Judas was going to buy something for the ongoing weekly festival. |
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| Apr-17-10 | | cormier: <now(today) it's the feast everyday, we are saved, we accept the unique sacrifice of the Lamb ... <the only sacrifice needed ever>, one God giving his human Body, retake the keys and retake His-Own-Body(resurected) .... He is worthy ..... tks> |
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| Apr-17-10 | | cormier: ..... thx |
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| Apr-17-10 | | cormier: The sea was stirred up because a strong wind was blowing.
When they had rowed about three or four miles,
they saw Jesus walking on the sea and coming near the boat,
and they began to be afraid.
But he said to them, “It is I. Do not be afraid.”
They wanted to take him into the boat,
but the boat immediately arrived at the shore
to which they were heading. |
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| Apr-17-10 | | cormier: Exult, you just, in the LORD;
praise from the upright is fitting.
Give thanks to the LORD on the harp;
with the ten-stringed lyre chant his praises.
Upright is the word of the LORD,
and all his works are trustworthy.
He loves justice and right;
of the kindness of the LORD the earth is full.
See, the eyes of the LORD are upon those who fear him,
upon those who hope for his kindness,
To deliver them from death
and preserve them in spite of famine.
Lord, let your mercy be on us, as we place our trust in you. Alleluia. |
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| Apr-17-10 | | 0003: <technical draw> is a genius and now i hear God is best, who is best? |
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| Apr-17-10 | | 0003: i adore baby. |
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| Apr-17-10 | | cormier: “We must obey God rather than men.
The God of our ancestors raised Jesus,
though you had him killed by hanging him on a tree.
God exalted him at his right hand as leader and savior
to grant Israel repentance and forgiveness of sins.
We are witnesses of these things,
as is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey him.” |
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| Apr-17-10 | | whatthefat: <OhioChessFan>
I think that's pretty tenuous - in that case John should at least make some reference to the Last Supper being the beginning of the feast like the other gospels. But in any case, there are many many other contradictions, and your decision to defend them all is surprising to say the least. Here are just three good ones: 1) <Romans 3:10-12>
"As it is written:
"There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.""
Yet there are of course many other passages that refer to men being or having been righteous. For example: <Genesis 6:9>
"Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked with God" <Hebrews 11:4>
"By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did. By faith he was commended as a righteous man, when God spoke well of his offerings" <Luke 1:6>
"Both of them were upright in the sight of God, observing all the Lord's commandments and regulations blamelessly." And on and on it goes...
2) <2 Kings 2:11>
"As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind." But in <John 3:13>, Jesus says: "No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man." 3) In two passages, Jesus says that John the Baptist is Elijah, who has returned. <Matthew 11:12-14>
"From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it. For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come." <Matthew 17:10-13>
"The disciples asked him, "Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?"
Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands." Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist."" This is clearly contradicted by John himself:
<John 1:19-21>
"Now this was John's testimony when the Jews of Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was. He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely, "I am not the Christ."
They asked him, "Then who are you? Are you Elijah?"
He said, "I am not."
"Are you the Prophet?"
He answered, "No."" |
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Apr-17-10
| | OhioChessFan: <whatthefat quotes 1) <Romans 3:10-12> "As it is written:
"There is no one righteous, not even one; > Where is it written, and who is being discussed? I realize the website you pulled that from wouldn't include such info, since appeals to context immediately dismiss a good 95% of the contradiction claims, but it might be good for you to look it up. <<2 Kings 2:11> "As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind." > <heaven> there is the Hebrew <shamayim> which can mean "sky", or it can mean "heaven". Ball's in your court to prove this usage means "heaven". The John the Baptist/Elijah issue is a little more difficult. However, the odd way Jesus broaches the matter says something, doesn't it? "If you are willing to accept it"? If Jesus is directly addressing the identity of John the Baptist, what an odd way to introduce it. I think Jesus is speaking metaphorically there and John the Baptist was answering a literal and direct question posed to him. |
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| Apr-17-10 | | cormier: <Romans 3:10-12> = we are all sinners but God the son paid-up for us.....thx |
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| Apr-17-10 | | cormier: <2 Kings 2:11>
2 Kings 6:16-17 (English Standard Version)
16He said, "Do not be afraid,(A) for those who are with us are more than those who are with them." 17Then Elisha prayed and said, "O LORD, please(B) open his eyes that he may see." So the LORD opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw, and behold, the mountain was full of(C) horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.Cross references:
A.2 Kings 6:16 : 2 Chr 32:7; Psalm 55:18; Rom 8:31
B.2 Kings 6:17 : 2 Kings 6:20
C.2 Kings 6:17 : 2 Kings 2:11; Psalm 34:7; 68:17; Zech 1:8-10; 6:1-7____________ <those that went to heaven stayed in heaven .... God the Son came from heaven, he was at the beginning, already in heaven ..... thx> |
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| Apr-17-10 | | cormier: John the Baptism had the same spirit as Elija and to: <"Are you the Prophet?"
He answered, "No."> because <the real prophet is Jesus the Messia.> .....thx |
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| Apr-17-10 | | whatthefat: <OhioChessFan: Where is it written, and who is being discussed? I realize the website you pulled that from wouldn't include such info, since appeals to context immediately dismiss a good 95% of the contradiction claims, but it might be good for you to look it up.> I didn't pull it from any website (aside from biblegateway.com). The rest of Romans 3 doesn't seem to indicate "where" exactly it is written. Do you have reason to believe the source they are referring to is unreliable? I can't see that suggested anywhere. |
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| Apr-17-10 | | whatthefat: <I think Jesus is speaking metaphorically there and John the Baptist was answering a literal and direct question posed to him.> I think that's a very tenuous interpretation. You've accused scientists of being inherently dishonest for a lot less. |
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| Apr-17-10 | | cormier: I will extol you, O LORD, for you drew me clear
and did not let my enemies rejoice over me.
O LORD, you brought me up from the netherworld;
you preserved me from among those going down into the pit.Sing praise to the LORD, you his faithful ones,
and give thanks to his holy name.
For his anger lasts but a moment;
a lifetime, his good will.
At nightfall, weeping enters in,
but with the dawn, rejoicing.
Hear, O LORD, and have pity on me;
O LORD, be my helper.
You changed my mourning into dancing;
O LORD, my God, forever will I give you thanks.
<I will praise you, Lord, for you have rescued me.
Alleluia.> |
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| Apr-17-10 | | whatthefat: <<heaven> there is the Hebrew <shamayim> which can mean "sky", or it can mean "heaven". Ball's in your court to prove this usage means "heaven". > I see, it's not the same Hebrew word used in John 3:13 (it's ouranos there). I agree, that one's open to interpretation. |
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| Apr-18-10 | | cormier: <Romans 3:10-12> Romans 3:19-31 (King James Version) 19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith <to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty> before God. 20Therefore <by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified> in his sight: <for by the law is the knowledge of sin>. 21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For <all have sinned, and come short> of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. <27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay>: but by the law of faith. 28Therefore we conclude that <a man is justified> by faith <without the deeds of the law.> 29Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. |
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| Apr-18-10 | | cormier: I, John, looked and heard the voices of many angels
who surrounded the throne
and the living creatures and the elders.
They were countless in number, and they cried out in a loud voice:
“Worthy is the Lamb that was slain
to receive power and riches, wisdom and strength,
honor and glory and blessing.” |
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| Apr-18-10 | | cormier: Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth
and under the earth and in the sea,
everything in the universe, cry out:
“To the one who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be blessing and honor, glory and might,
forever and ever.”
The four living creatures answered, “Amen, “
and the elders fell down and worshiped. |
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| Apr-18-10 | | kingfu: drnoo, chicken chao mao killed more than Stalin, way more. And you still have not answered the Bogart riddle. What movie? |
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| Apr-18-10 | | cormier: Jesus said to them, “Children, have you caught anything to eat?”
They answered him, “No.”
So he said to them, “Cast the net over the right side of the boat
and you will find something.”
So they cast it, and were not able to pull it in
because of the number of fish.
So the disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, “It is the Lord.”The other disciples came in the boat,
for they were not far from shore, only about a hundred yards,
dragging the net with the fish.
When they climbed out on shore,
they saw a charcoal fire with fish on it and bread.
Jesus said to them, “Bring some of the fish you just caught.”
So Simon Peter went over and dragged the net ashore
full of one hundred fifty-three large fish.
Even though there were so many, the net was not torn. |
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| Apr-18-10 | | cormier: When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter,
“Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?”
Simon Peter answered him, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.”
Jesus said to him, “Feed my lambs.”
He then said to Simon Peter a second time,
“Simon, son of John, do you love me?”
Simon Peter answered him, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.”
Jesus said to him, “Tend my sheep.”
Jesus said to him the third time,
“Simon, son of John, do you love me?”
Peter was distressed that Jesus had said to him a third time,
“Do you love me?” and he said to him,
“Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.”
Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep. |
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| Apr-18-10 | | cormier: 7 Isaac spoke up and said to his father Abraham, "Father?"
"Yes, my son?" Abraham replied.
"The fire and wood are here," Isaac said, "but <where is the lamb> for the burnt offering?" 8 Abraham answered, <"God himself will provide the lamb> for the burnt offering, my son." And the two of them went on together. 9 When they reached the place God had told him about, <Abraham built an altar there and arranged the wood on it. He bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood. 10 Then he reached out his hand and took the knife to slay his son>. 11 <But the angel of the LORD called out to him from heaven, "Abraham! Abraham!">
"Here I am," he replied.
12 "Do not lay a hand on the boy," he said. <"Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son."> 13 Abraham looked up and there in a thicket he saw a ram [a] caught by its horns. He went over and took the ram and sacrificed it as a burnt offering instead of his son. 14 So <Abraham called that place The LORD Will Provide. And to this day it is said, "On the mountain of the LORD it will be provided."> 15 <<The angel of the LORD called to Abraham from heaven a second time> 16 <and said, <"I swear by myself, <declares the LORD, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son,> 17 I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore>. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, 18 and through your offspring [b] all nations on earth will be blessed>, because you have obeyed me."> __ and God the Son sacrifice himself for us on the cross.....thx |
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| Apr-18-10 | | playground player: <Ohio Chess Fan> Let Mr. Fat have his apparent contradictions. It's useless to argue with him. If he can't understand that "Noah was a righteous man" is not really a contradiction to "There is no one righteous," that the problem is with his superficial and prejudiced reading of the text, there's not much point trying to explain it to him. The only thing harder than an unbelieving heart is an unbelieving head. |
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