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Olga Viewer
Member since Sep-02-17
This is the official page for discussing the Olga Chess Viewer. If you have suggestions, problems, or any other comment please leave it here.

Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart

To try out Olga 2 (new name coming).
https://protozefoss.github.io/

Olga Chess Viewer
Written and developed by Christopher Dean
Copyright (c) 2017 Chessgames Services LLC

*** Known Issues ***

3 Move repetition reports for the rest of the game
http://github.com/jhlywa/chess.js/i...

Piece animation "wiggles" when landing on a destination square, on some platforms in some circumstances.

No way to alter the speed of "autoplay" mode from mobile phones or tablets. (Desktops can press 1-9, or 0 for lightning-mode.)

Copying and pasting the game score strips out the spaces (e.g. 1.e4e52.Nf3Nc63.Bb5 etc.) Workaround for now: use the "View PGN" feature and copy straight from the ASCII text.

Olga chokes on PGN that does not include "x" for captures, e.g. ed5 instead of exd5.

Olga chokes on odds games which technically do not start on move #1 (e.g. pawn and move)

Chessgames.com Full Member

   Olga Viewer has kibitzed 38 times to chessgames   [more...]
   Nov-19-20 chessgames.com chessforum (replies)
 
Olga Viewer: Considering there is bickering from both sides, no matter how the staff of CG feels, it's likely something on Rogoff does not agree with their personal beliefs. <However>, I do not believe the discussion to clean up the website has anything to do with anyone being ...
 
   Nov-04-20 Kibitzer's Café (replies)
 
Olga Viewer: Hate the look of Olga 2's temporary header? Great news! Tonight I will be working on implementing the true header design and tabled game score! :) 2 of the most requested features. Getting ready for Release Candidate 1! Please check out the stream or VOD and provide feedback on ...
 
   Nov-04-20 Olga Viewer chessforum
 
Olga Viewer: Absolutely. The biggest issue is all the new features, all time. "Tabled" score format coming today, I'm very excited to show everyone!
 
(replies) indicates a reply to the comment.

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 11 OF 11 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Oct-09-20  login:

Teyss, (in our case) such scanners are used as a 'passive filter' for listing causes of 'delay' (you could block particular objects). So far the 'mid-Sept' clue holds the answer (setup and/or site changes) IMO. You said switching browsers is not available on your iPad, but do you see a chance 'adding' (not as replacement, for testing) one of the free alternatives given at https://www.lifewire.com/best-web-b...? If an installation is not prohibited by other factors.

OV, is there a reupload (the twitch channel has no vod) of the O 2.0 preview somewhere for us (non NA) plebs who missed it live? That posted preview gif looked smooth as a Zamboni. Merci.

Oct-09-20  Teyss: Hello <login>, thanks again - merci encore - for your kind help. I'll try alternative browsers and if if works I'll arbitrage between switching just for CG and sticking to pgn4web. If it doesn't I'll opt for checkers ;-)
Oct-09-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Olga Viewer: < @ login> Sorry I do not have a VOD for the last one but I will make one for the stream next week.

< @ Teyss> Better yet, try a new PGN Viewer all together - https://protozefoss.github.io/

This is a preview of an early build of Olga 2. Details on how it works on your iPad would be very helpful! :) Big release coming the during the next stream!

Feel free to begin discussing Olga 2 now that you all can play with it.

Oct-10-20  Teyss: <@ Olga Viewer> Olga 2 works on the ipad, thanks for all your work. (For info the first time I clicked on the link, it went to https://www.coreldraw.com/en/produc.... I clicked back, then on the link again and it was ok.)

Here is some feedback. I also checked on the computer, apparently it's the same.

Re. design, I like the fact we can adjust the size of the board vs score, as well as the colouring of the moves when clicking through them. However, it is a bit difficult to follow the score with all the notes inserted (maybe it's just a matter of habit). BTW, not sure why some moves are surrounded by dotted lines. Last, I hope the default colours are not final ;-) (light blue and purple).

Re. functionalities, what does not seem to work yet:

* The 3 middle icons in the penultimate line (square with bar, -, +) are frozen

* In the settings, General and Game score are blank, Keymap looks incomplete

* There is no engine, maybe it will come later on

* Pieces on the board can not always be moved (handy to analyse a variant) and when it's possible, illegal moves are allowed (e.g. one side moving multiple pieces)

Not sure it was what you were expecting. Apologies if not, else hope it helps. Cheers.

Oct-10-20  Teyss: <@ Olga Viewer> I don't know if you modified something but Olga 1 is back on ipad. Thanks.
Oct-11-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Olga Viewer: "Teyss: <@ Olga Viewer> Olga 2 works on the ipad, thanks for all your work."

<@ Teyss> Great, thanks for the confirmation!

"Re. design, I like the fact we can adjust the size of the board vs score, as well as the colouring of the moves when clicking through them. However, it is a bit difficult to follow the score with all the notes inserted (maybe it's just a matter of habit). BTW, not sure why some moves are surrounded by dotted lines. Last, I hope the default colours are not final ;-) (light blue and purple)."

<@ Teyss> Thank you for the feedback. All colors, sizes, fonts, and figurine notations, will be customizable to user's desire. No these will not be the default colors in the final release.

"Re. functionalities, what does not seem to work yet:

* The 3 middle icons in the penultimate line (square with bar, -, +) are frozen

* In the settings, General and Game score are blank, Keymap looks incomplete

* There is no engine, maybe it will come later on

* Pieces on the board can not always be moved (handy to analyse a variant) and when it's possible, illegal moves are allowed (e.g. one side moving multiple pieces)

Not sure it was what you were expecting. Apologies if not, else hope it helps. Cheers."

<@ Teyss> This was more than I expected and I appreciate the detail. Yes, this version of Olga 2 is intentionally out of date, a new version for testing will be available middle of next week. But even with the new version do not expect all bugs and kinks worked out. Thank you for taking the time and providing feedback! I'm also glad Olga 1 is working on the iPad again.

Oct-14-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Olga Viewer: Just a reminder - live in a couple of hours.
More discussion of Olga 2 and plenty of mistakes and bloopers along the way xD

Topics:
- The design of the PGN "header"
- Design of floating "action buttons"
- Update on Olga and new features in public

https://www.twitch.tv/tophertech/sc...

I will make this VOD for the Olga users that cannot make the live viewing.

Oct-16-20  login:

Skipped through the VOD

- plus for the clear sound

- plus for keeping it lightweight
 (would sacrifice everything fancy for speed)

- plus for keeping it easily updatable
 (for future maintenance)

- plus for 'copying' good solutions from elsewhere

But most important 'it works' - you did a pretty good job there.


For the upcoming block about color themes viewers can try Lichess' free stuff (e.g. zen mode, menu implementation, dark board) in advance. Keep the bloopers coming and feel free to tell one or two unrelated crazy stories you experienced once. Do you believe in ghosts? Just have fun.

Ok guys, enjoy the next stream (a more lurid title 'Privet, more live coding making OLGA sexy today', check if you're still in the frame after a break, maybe add a bit of background music) and please upload a VOD again, thanks.

Oct-16-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Paint My Dragon: Also regarding the VOD:

Thanks for such a lengthy and informative discourse.

A few observations:

It would be good to bear in mind that some game viewers (and book texts for that matter) fail because the analysis is barely distinguishable from the actual game moves. So please ensure that whatever the chosen fonts and font sizes, it is immediately obvious which is which, at a glance. Being able to easily follow the flow of the game moves is of paramount importance. Hopefully, your many selectable colour options will come in handy in this regard, but I do think that relative size and boldness have a major part to play as well, particularly for those who are colour blind of course.

On a related note, it would be helpful if in future VODs you could select a larger font size for the annotations/game score data, so that those of us with smaller sized monitors can read what appears in your demo.

Like you, I'm fond of the Deluxe Viewer 'Form-style', mainly because it resembles a score sheet that you would fill in at a tournament. This did introduce a lot of duplication though, given that the overall header contained largely the same information. I'm sure it would be better to clear space for something else rather than have the same info pointlessly repeated. Perhaps this was already your intention.

Could there be a puns on/off check box in settings? You are right that they're part of cg.com culture, and I wouldn't want to suggest that they get relegated in size or disappear completely, but there will be many who simply want to study chess without having this as a permanent distraction.

You mentioned the possibility of various external link options - how possible would it be to make the <player info box> part of a player's <wikipedia article> appear by right-clicking on his name, or similar?

I'm wondering if part of your brief is to accommodate the Opening Explorer within Olga for an all-in-one experience? It would be preferable for the user, but as it is a premium member feature, i don't know how easy it would be to disable it for non-members, or whether it's simply too much work anyway.

Oct-17-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Paint My Dragon: Looking back at the "sneak peak" demo you linked above, on Oct 6 - the analysis does appear quite distinct from the game moves, so that is probably an issue I needn't have raised.

I did want to ask two other questions though ...

The dotted boxes around some moves and blocks of analyses? What do they signify? They certainly make the score look incredibly busy and perhaps stand out more than anything else, but I couldn't work out what they were for.

And am I right in thinking that the autoplay function comes with its own ticking down timer display? I like the idea that it can be set to a speed that is comfortable for the user, but I wouldn't want the distraction of a countdown of 'how many tenths of seconds until the next move displays'. I couldn't see any benefit in that, but maybe it's just there for beta testing purposes.

Oct-19-20  Boomie: I think a lot of the difficulty with Olga can be attributed to the attempt to make "one size fits all". To make a board that works for desktops and phones is probably impossible. There should be two types of Olga which people can select from the drop down list.

I repeat my request to allow more than one line of analysis. Now you can enter a variation but when you enter a new line, the first one disappears. You may recall that Deluxe allowed any number of lines which it embedded in the score until you left that page. How are we supposed to analyze games if we can't try different lines at the same time? Do you really expect people to only use engines for analysis? What kind of mindless patzer would that create?

Oct-19-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Olga Viewer: Thanks, everyone for your feedback. I will try to address some of the questions raised.

<Boomie>: "I think a lot of the difficulty with Olga can be attributed to the attempt to make "one size fits all. To make a board that works for desktops and phones is probably impossible. There should be two types of Olga which people can select from the drop down list."

There definitely have been difficulties. A flexible layout system requires an intelligent design from the beginning. I absolutely disagree it is 'probably impossible'. Olga 1 does a fair job, and there was not a large effort to make it scale well to mobile; the main target audience at that time was still desktop computers. Olga 2 will do a fantastic job of this. But mostly because Olga 2 isn't about mobile vs desktop, it is really about choice. Want your game score on the left, not the right? You got it! Want the quick actions as buttons even if you have a keyboard? Sure! And OLGA 2 has even more sizing capabilities. We will still have a mobile/desktop styling so that users can "store" their settings on CG and have the correct setting applied depending on their device. You can avoid all of this, and just store your OLGA settings local to the device (using cookies).

<Boomie>: "I repeat my request to allow more than one line of analysis.....How are we supposed to analyze games if we can't try different lines at the same time? Do you really expect people to only use engines for analysis? What kind of mindless patzer would that create?"

Absolutely! One of the larger issues with Olga was only allowing one line of analysis. Olga 2 now supports something called `Recursive Annotation Variation`

<http://www.saremba.de/chessgml/stan...

With this new feature, theoretically, a blank Olga 2 board could hold all possible variations for every possible move. Of course, most systems would run out of memory attempting to do so. But there is no limit on the move count, variations, or annotations you can have (still only one annotation per move per variation).

Oct-19-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Olga Viewer: <Paint My Dragon>: "The dotted boxes around some moves and blocks of analyses? What do they signify? They certainly make the score look incredibly busy and perhaps stand out more than anything else, but I couldn't work out what they were for"

The <dashed> boxes around the move represent that position has an available variation. Whether or not the boxes will be dashed, dotted, solid, or even exist is both a setting and a feature that we are currently discussing the design of. The question to the community - how should variations be displayed inline? a small marker at the start of the move? Does using the score item border seem logical to others (like it does to me)?

<Paint My Dragon>: "And am I right in thinking that the autoplay function comes with its own ticking down timer display? I like the idea that it can be set to a speed that is comfortable for the user, but I wouldn't want the distraction of a countdown of 'how many tenths of seconds until the next move displays'. I couldn't see any benefit in that, but maybe it's just there for beta testing purposes."

Interesting perspective. I thought the countdown timer was very useful for a couple of reasons -

1.) It communicates the current timer is running. I see how this might be distracting, but it also makes OLGA 2 feel "alive".

2.) Maybe instead of showing the running timer, it can just show the current autoplay delay. Then it would be less distracting but still, communicate the move delay currently set.

<Paint My Dragon>: "Could there be a puns on/off check box in settings? "

Lmao!

<Paint My Dragon>: "You mentioned the possibility of various external link options - how possible would it be to make the <player info box> part of a player's <wikipedia article> appear by right-clicking on his name, or similar?"

I think it would be possible but I'm not sure it would be "better". The reason a 'link' to the player page works, because the player page and content are not coupled to OLGA itself. The user goes to a separate page that is curated and developed on its own.

<Paint My Dragon>: "I'm wondering if part of your brief is to accommodate the Opening Explorer within Olga for an all-in-one experience? It would be preferable for the user, but as it is a premium member feature, i don't know how easy it would be to disable it for non-members, or whether it's simply too much work anyway."

I think OLGA 2 could improve lots of areas throughout CG. I am only developing OLGA but I think this is likely planned and will happen in time. The focus is on finishing OLGA 2 first of course.

<Login>: "Skipped through the VOD..."

Thanks for all this feedback on the stream! I will definitely try to add some background music. I have been trying to spend more of the time I have developing OLGA than the stream itself but each week I am getting a little better with it.

Oct-19-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Paint My Dragon: Okay. Thanks for the response.

And good luck. It sounds like there will be some substantial improvements over Olga 1.

I guess I will just have to see how the dotted boxes concept works out in practice. Right now, I can't see why they would be an improvement over the usual indented, bracketed sub-variations you see elsewhere.

Oct-21-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Olga Viewer: Update about tonight's stream -

I will be breaking up Wednesday streams into two separate videos.

The first video will focus on design elements and will be a more general discussion of Olga/PGN Viewers and life.

The second video will be focused on coding tasks and likely involve a more technical discussion of Olga.

First video starts at 7PM (PST) and the second video starts at about 8:10PM (PST) after a small break. Check the schedule for your local times
<https://www.twitch.tv/tophertech/sc...>

The video will also be available on-demand for 14 days.

Oct-22-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: This game shows up as 29 moves in Olga, and 47 moves in every other viewer:

Heiner Theofel vs A Jokel, 1984

Oct-22-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Olga Viewer: <OhioChessFan> I think it is hanging up on the exclamation mark. <29.c4 ! dxc4 >
Oct-23-20  login:

I would like to ask you to pin the link to the UI https://protozefoss.github.io/ here in your forum header and post it in the Kibitzer Cafe from time to time (if you like). The forum section of CG is a bit 'hidden' and most members will not check here too often.

Maybe with a small intro, so it will be easier to follow things for members who are late to the party. Also you could post the link 1x into twitch chat for the VODs.

For viewers:

Portable Game Notation Specification and Implementation Guide http://www.saremba.de/chessgml/stan...

Color Contrast
https://www.viget.com/articles/colo...

'I might be a weirdo', Topher gets a MTG pack starts unboxing.

So what is Magic?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSB...

Was the FEN stuck bec of the castling potion? Happy coding next time. Enjoy.

Oct-23-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Olga Viewer: Thanks <login> for the feedback and links you have shared. I did not mean to take over the design discussion with Magic the gathering. But I was getting bored with no one to chat with :(

I will try to keep the videos more focused and likely shorter.

Anyone wanting to check out the past videos - Know they will start to disappear this coming Wednesday.

I never did get the FEN to work as I moved on to other things needing work.

Oct-31-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Olga Viewer: There was no stream this week - Next week I am aiming for release candidate 1! I will be talking more about that on Wednesday.

For now please give the new features a test and provide some feedback. <https://protozefoss.github.io/>

New Features:
**Persistent storage of Olga 2 colors (cookie)

**More colors for themes and game score size slider (this has issues at the moment).

** New layout work on mobile (Portrait has a new "side by side" technique for the header).

** Improvements to header data display

**Multiple Games support for "Sets" which will be a way to share entire game sets with a unique name and date (set creation date).

** Oh did I say support for Chess960 games? Come see them, they are games 3-6 I believe.

The games being tested can be found
RAW PGN (sort of):
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/P...>

Game Sources:
<https://github.com/ProtozeFOSS/Olga...>

To change games look for the arrows at the top right of the header.

Nov-01-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

<Stephen> is already looking at this, but <Olga> failed to display the correct start position on the FEN from this odds game I recently uploaded- so far it is the only odds game I uploaded in which <Olga> failed to display the correct start position.

The ChessTempo pgn viewer was able to display the correct start position.

This game here: H Halsky vs H K E Clemenz, 1862

Nov-02-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Olga Viewer: <jessicafischerqueen> Thank you for the heads up. Yes, I believe Stephen is already got an update to chess.js and a patch to Olga 1 he is testing.

Just to confirm, this game did work in Olga 2. You can test PGN in Olga 2 (if interested) by:

1. Open Olga 2 <https://protozefoss.github.io/>

2. Click the settings icon (bottom right of the game score)

3. Navigate to the "PGN Edit" tab - top right, of the menu tabs (you might need to use the arrow key to go right if you have a low resolution or portrait display).

4. Paste in the desired games(s)

5. Click the "Set PGN" button on the bottom right.

You can test multiple games ("Sets"), just insert each PGN with a newline between them.

You can name and date the set by adding a "Set" and a "SetDate" property into the PGN (at the top is preferred). This is how it looks for the current game set on the test page.

[Set "Testing Olga 2"]

[SetDate "Halloween 2020"]

Nov-02-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Paint My Dragon: <Olga Viewer>

Not sure if it's a known issue, but when I downsize the board slightly using the slider, the move forwards/backwards arrowed buttons no longer work as a means of navigating the score.

Nov-04-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

<Olga Viewer>

Thank you sir, that sounds like good news on the <Olga 2>.

The bug search in beta testing must be exhausting, I imagine...

Nov-04-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Olga Viewer: Absolutely. The biggest issue is all the new features, all time. "Tabled" score format coming today, I'm very excited to show everyone!
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